Where do dealers get their coins??

how they (dealers) get coins?.

they got cheap coins from most of us collectors and general public. cause we are or most of us stupid enough to sell them cheap. of course they cheat a lot from outsiders (non-collectors). everything is bullion price. if you don't know them.

 

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Hey Folks,

Sorry I am so late in responding to this Thread but I will weigh in with what I have learned from my experiences!

How do Dealers get their coins (besides buying from walk in customers)?? Most Coin Dealers I know, purchase probably 60 to 80% of their coins from other Coin Dealers! Most of the transactions are done Dealer to Dealer over the phone or Dealer to Dealer at Coin Shows and/or local Coin Club meetings. A good Coin Dealer doesn't purchase coins blindly and has a plan! They have want lists (orders) from regular and walk-in customers that they try to fill but they will almost always have commitments from Collectors or other Coin dealers to buy Estate Collections or large Coin Collections before they ever lay out any money whatsoever. In other words, a large portion of the coins that a specific Coin Dealer purchases are basically already sold before he or she actually purchases them! Quite a few Coin Dealers also have regulars (people that bring in a constant flow of coins) that bring in coins to them every week to sell and if the price is right, they will take it. (This is sort of the vague area of the industry where quite a few Coin Dealers take the Sergeant Schultz (from Hogan's Heroes) stance of I know nothing, see nothing and do nothing! The regulars never tell where the coins came from and the Dealers never ask!) Another thing you should be aware of, is the fact that most transactions at Coin Shows are made between Coin Dealers. Most of the larger Coin Shows have one day during or after setup (a time when the public is not allowed in) before the Coin Show is actually scheduled to open to the public and one to two hours each day before the Coin Show opens (during operating days for the public), for Coin Dealers to do business between themselves. (Note: Since much of their' transactions have already taken place between themselves, this is why many Coin Dealers pack up and leave early.) During this Coin Dealer to Coin Dealer time, it is nothing to see quite a few $100,000 to $250,000 transactions take place every hour between the larger Coin Dealers and $25,000 to $100,000 transactions every hour between the smaller Coin Dealers! One Coin Dealer that I know, would try to have at least $50,000 on hand when he went to Coin Shows when I first met him and now he goes to Coin Shows with no less than $150,000 (but try to have $200,000) on hand.

How to become a Coin Dealer?? The answer to this question can vary significantly, depending upon whether you want to deal in coins full-time as a job or whether you want to deal in coins part-time (with sights on becoming a full-time Dealer) while holding a regular job!
To become a full-time Coin Dealer as a job, you really need to get a job at a Coin Shop or at least be taken under the wing of a Coin Dealer that will allow you to make money off of the purchases and sales that you make on his or her behalf. (You not only need to make money to survive but also need to make money to accumulate operating capital unless you are already loaded!) (a)You must first establish yourself within the Community where you operate and establish yourself with the smaller and bigger (loaded) Coin Collectors, regular customers and especially with other Coin Dealers. (b)Go to every Coin Show and local Coin Club meeting that you can, so that these folks will eventually remember your name and not just your face. (c)Make as many contacts that you can by compiling a list and phone numbers (if possible) of every Customer and Coin Dealer that you come in contact with. (d)Purchase as many Cell Phones and calling plans needed to enter the phone numbers of the best contacts and compile a list of all of your contacts and any significant information (what the person buys, collects, etc.) in a notebook. This plan of action, may take you up to 5 years to accomplish but possibly more years depending on how well you do and how much exposure you get with those in (a) above.
To become a part-time Coin Dealer with the vision of becoming a full-time Dealer, you will need a lot of patience and determination as well as operating funds that are not tied to your budget! You must follow (a) above and be willing to suffer quite a few losses with the gains and be willing to suffer consternation and much ridicule when dealing with some Coin Dealers (there is a lot if mistrust of any newcomers to the industry, besides you are competing with many seasoned and hardened Coin Dealers). Be very vocal when dealing with anyone and especially so with other Coin Dealers, let these folks know who you are and what you are about. Follow (b), (c) and (d) above. This plan of action, will probably take you 5 to 10 years to accomplish but again possibly more years depending on how well you do and how much exposure you get with those in (a) above.

I seriously got back into Coin Collecting about 6 years ago with the vision of making a little money to support my collecting and to build up some operating capital so that I could eventually become a full-time Coin Dealer when I retire. It has been a hard row to plow considering that my work and my family take up a lot of my time and due to family situations that always seem to arrive, my coin budget more often than not, is tied to my overall budget. I had envisioned that at this point, I would be more than half-way if not nearing my goal, when in reality, I am probably less than a quarter of the way to my goal! Yes, I have made a lot of contacts and many of the Coin Dealers can now attach a name to my face but I still have not earned the trust of many of them and do not get the discounts from most of them, that other Coin Dealers get. Also, due to the lack of time because of my work and my family obligations, I have been unable to amass the information needed on the contacts to really carry on a regular Coin Business. Therefore, I make a few contacts here and there (some of which are members on C.T.) and try to fill their coin requests as best I can! I doubt that I will ever make a great Coin Dealer as I am too personable with almost everyone that I meet or have contact with and they eventually become friends or good acquaintances and I eventually end up giving them extremely better discounts on coins than I would someone that I just met.

The above is just my perspective on buying coins and becoming a Coin Dealer based on my experiences! Other folks here may have a different take or twist on these subjects due to their life experiences and knowledge.


Frank

 

Wow, thanks Huntsman53!! And thank you to everyone else as well. Your advice is invaluable!

I will definitely mull over everything I have read! I dont want to go to crazy with this, just something to be more active in my hobby....

The vest pocket dealer sounds like a hell of a plan, I think it would be alot of fun! So say I gather 5 or 10 clients and they give me a want list....

I go to a coin show and buy the coins on their want list, why would a dealer give me a blue book price when he doesnt even know me?? Is this where the networking comes into play?

Thanks a ton everyone!

Jim

 

GD i need a job at a bank for weekends so i can do roll searching while i am there and the tellers will give me any find what kind of position am i looking for it can beteller or supervisor. i wonder if they ave any consultant positions

 

well how about you come up with a plan for a change? you are the mentor remember?

 

Jim

If you get to the point that you understand dealers please let me know. I hae been dealing since 1964 and I still don't understand. But to answer your specific questions:

"So are they buying from other dealers based off of the "greysheet"?? "

Don't know about others, but I sell to other dealers based on my cost AND greysheet. Sometimes I sell cheaply because the coin has been in inventory for a long while and it is time to cash in. That way you get your money working again.

"And why would one dealer sell a coin to another dealer at greysheet price when they can sell it to a customers for retail??"

The operative word is customer. If you don't have a customer for an item you get rid of it and buy something else to sell to a customer you do have.

Does that help?

Paul Garner
The Old Sarge

 

There has been a ton of good advice here from so many people and so many angles.

I've been working in a shop since April. I am by no means a dealer.

I'm a small time side seller. Basically fill want lists with what walks in the door. The boss turns it quick and we both make a minimal profit. Takes a bit of effort and time but nothing to make it too much like a job.

Vest pocket dealers run their butts off. I know a few and yes they are thinner than me.

Tons of transactions DO take place between dealers. Some we sell to I have little respect for but a deal is a deal and it's a business.

It's great knowing what YOU like as well but take into account that every customer is not you.

We sell a LOT of mondern stuff. State quarters, Presidential dollars, every U.S. mint thing that has come out. Just so happens this stuff does nothing for me but it does for customers.
Couple that with world coins and paper money etc and what you find is that you have to learn every day.

Is it an easy business? No. Is it a fun business? Pretty often. Do I like what I do working at a coin shop. 99% of the time.

clembo

 

How about armed guard ?:hail::kewl:
rzage

 

The armed guards don't actually touch any of the coins they deliver (at least in my experience). These days all coin, rolled or unrolled, is sealed in tamper-evident plastic bags and the armored guys deal with those bags.

 

i have decided that bank president will suit me better. the star of the cin show

 

Coin Dealers and Coin Collectors

Because being a full time coin dealer requires they be able to BUY and unless they start printing their own money in the backroom they have to turn the inventory to buy the next deal.

Dealers buy entire collections and may keep a small portion to carry and maximize the profit on key coins and dates but the more common coins or stale inventory will be dumped to other dealers just to keep the money turning. After all, they have bills, overhead, etc., just like anyone else. Usually the inventory they dump pays for the entire deal (and more) and the items kept will be the profit, eventually.

Re Elaine they got cheap coins from most of us collectors and general public. cause we are or most of us stupid enough to sell them cheap. of course they cheat a lot from outsiders (non-collectors). everything is bullion price. if you don't know them.

It amazes me how people will fully understand and accept the variance between the wholesale to retail pricing of appliances, food, clothing, jewelry and vehicles but act as if the coin dealer is evil for making a profit. It's as if they are suppose to voluntarily spend years studying numismatics and investing hundreds of thousands of dollars into inventory to ( in addition to countless hours organizing and cataloging the inventory) just have it available for the collector whenever the whim to add to their collection strikes.

If all were experts and refused to sell unless top dollar, it would only make it more expensive for the collector to buy. Respectable dealers are not going to buy anything they can't sell and make a profit and they aren't going to sink their investment money into collections just to take advantage of someone wealthy but stupid to get out of the coins.

Reputation in coin dealers is important and most dealers, esp storefront dealers, want to be known for being good buyers AND good sellers... not rip off artists taking every seller and buyer for a ride. Otherwise, they don't last long.

The comments I hear most often lately from Coin Dealers is how they are perplexed at the number of non dealers, not even vest pocket dealers (which MOST brick & mortar dealers HATE), all walking into shows shoving grey sheets in their face expecting to buy at or below bid. It's as if 90% of 'collectors' at shows all imagine themselves 'dealers' and expect wholesale.

So every coin collector wants top dollar when they sell and the lowest possible when they buy. How in the world is this suppose to happen? Yes, it can happen here on Cointalk by trading. But if you want honest, respectable, dependable dealers at your shows year after year, something's gotta give.

 

Coin Sources

Other than what the others have mentioned I have done a nice business buying "duplicates" from museums and other coin display places.

 

WELL SAID!!!

One of the most and often abused attributes in coin collecting is a "collector" waving a Gray Sheet in a dealer's face. If you will look on the front page of the GS, the bottom fine print, it CLEARLY says these prices are dealer to dealer WHOLESALE and NOT retail ....... and, most of the general public wants the dealer discounts. Shame!

 

Like anything else, the Greysheet can be misused. But if used properly, it can give one a decent ballpark estimate.

Ya gotta have some up-to-date resource for basing an estimate. Recent auction results + greysheet is a decent approach.

Yes, it's totally reasonable for dealers to profit. If greysheet gives wholesale values, one can use that to estimate a fair retail price.

In some cases, you can get greysheet prices. Common late date proof sets ? Greysheet bid, all day long.

Common Morgans ? I've gotten many good ones at Greysheet ask, maybe a little more.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen;

For your information, the terms Vest Pocket Coins and Paul's Vest Pocket Coins are registered trademarks and have been since early 1977.

Will you please use an alternative term such as small dealer, small time dealer or brief case dealer.

Before you ask, I did wear a custom made vest until it shrunk around the waist. Just can't get quality goods anymore.

Thanks for your consideration.

Paul Garner
The Old Sarge
aka Vest Pocket Coins (est 1977)

 

LOL:mouth: However Sarge, if u are serious you may want to check this link http://itlaw.wikia.com/wiki/Trademark . Not sure you can claim because it is not exact wording. Also, think about Kleenex and Jello. Almost everyone I know calls a tissue a Kleenex and gelatin Jello.

 

Your opening comment on this post is also registered on this forum to Spock. Please use a different term