May 29, 1453 - The End of a World

Those are really pretty.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Thanks for sharing the incredible story along with a very interesting coin. There is an apocryphal legend that one day Constantine XI will return to Constantinople and lead the Greeks in toppling the Turks, since his body was never found.

I was fortunate to take an upper division seminar at Berkeley in Byzantine history taught by leading expert on Byzantium Warren Treadgold back in the day.

 

That is a really exceptional specimen of the super rare issue but I would warn anyone wishing to get one that this of all issues really needs to be pedigreed as is this one "129". The attribution to Constantine XI for these coins is based on their being part of the hoard which was studied and documented completely. The value of the coin depends a lot on its association with the hoard because there are other coins of earlier rulers that could be mistaken for these but don't carry the premium of being the 'last' coins. I remember when the hoard came out that some of the lesser ones were really ugly and struck me as too easily confused with the cheaper ones in low grades (the OP coin is 'Prooflike' for these).

I have a larger coin (called half hyperpyron when I bought it in CNG51 but more recently termed stavraton). I consider it very important that it shows at the outer top the letters IW establishing it is not the rare coin of that size which starts KW. None of these are full legend but the people with illegible coins not linkable to the hoard literature who assume the may, maybe, have a Constantine XI are really fooling themselves. We tell people to buy from good sources. C XI is one you only buy with pedigree papers.

John VIII by dougsmit posted May 29, 2017 at 11:58 AM

 

Thanks for a great post! Interesting and very informative with a nice coin that allows us to actually "touch" the history!

 

How sad to behold a coin that looks like something a grammar school dropout from Barbaria engraved. Compare it to a solidus of Zeno or Justinian. How the mighty have fallen.

 

Very cool! These two were gifted to me by a kind ancients collector and I like them very much. Nicephorus III and Romanus III from the Byzantine Empire.

 

Great post! It reminded me of this medal of the penultimate emperor John VIII Palaeologus in my collection:



It was created during his journey to Italy in 1438-1439 to seek support for his fight against the Turks and discuss a union of the Latin and Greek churches.

 

Wow, that is a spectacular coin!! Thanks so much for posting it.

I happen to have the very first issue of Mehmet II struck in Constantinople ("Konstantiniyye") after the conquest, an AR akce dated "5" for AH865 (1460-61). I've often wondered if there was any overlap in the mint workers pre- and post-conquest.

It also seems to be pretty rare, though way cheaper!

 

After having visited Hagia Sophia a couple of times my view is that it should revert to being a church rather than a museum.

 

A good point you make about checking the pedigree of any coins offered as C. XI. All those I have seen offered since 1991 go back to this hoard. There was a fake offered in a European sale next week, and it has been pulled from the sale, I am happy to say. Yours is a nice John VIII. I have a fondness for these poorly struck, crudely engraved, but heavy stavrata, and buy any decent examples I can if the price is right. All too often, it is not. Most of the stavrata offered are those of John VIII, but occasionally the rarer John V examples also turn up. Attached are 2 of mine that show the stylistic differences between John V and John VIII.

 

I totally agree with you!

 

It was also the title of a poem by Wilfred Owen written during WWI. He used the line ironically to describe what he saw as the wastefulness and horrors of wars.

 

I had a thought that i wanted ALL rulers from the vast span beginning from Arcadius until Constantine 11. But that was before i realized that the price for a Constantine 11 is so high that you have to choose wheter you want many bronze, silver and gold of various rulers or wheter you want one rare silver. - I decided for the first opportunity.

Here my half stavraton of Manuel II, Sear 2552. - 3,68gram and 21,9mm:


A Fallaro of Manuel II, sear 2559

 

I'd like posters to (always) give the diameters of the coins they illustrate. Images by themselves are not enough to tell how big a coin is (unless the denomination is so common we all already know).
@Voulgaroktonou, how big is the OP coin? @Herberto, how big is the Fallaro of Manuel II?

 

That bronze of Manuel is 1,5 cm.

 

@Herberto I actually have that Fallero of Manuel II - It's a coin I could never attribute - I figured it was from a Crusader state but I couldn't find a match for the reverse! It's a bit scuffed on the obverse but the reverse is fine. I'm glad that you posted it!

 

i remember that from a line in a poem written during WWl, i can't recall the poets name off the bat, but i do remember the poem.

 

wow.. i just mentioned that, thanks, i couldn't recall who, but even after 40 years, i could recall what. it made a big impression on me.