Counterfeit Colonial Copper - eBay Seller - No Consequences

I didn’t mean to offend so please accept my apologies for doing so. I simply meant that of all the TPG’s some are better at one type of coin than another. One TPG may deal with ancient coins more than the others. Another one may understand another type of coin. I’ve seen numerous threads about dealing with a specific TPG for specific things, such as errors.
I can not look at a photo and tell if the OP’s coin is fake or not. I’m not that familiar with Elephant Tokens. Yes I would like to have one but that’s another thing. What is it about the photo of the coin that stands out as a fake? Please share this information with all that have responded.

 

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Except there has, by NGC no? Also I wasn't speaking exclusively about a TPG, there are surely other "experts" that do not work for TPG companies. I wouldn't know a fake one if it jumped up and bit me in the rear in this case personally.

 

Mildly in my defense, yes, I did compare it to others sold by Great Collections, Heritage and on eBay, and I looked at the University of Notre Dame site which is my "go to" for Colonial coins - it was advertised as correct weight and size and the kicker is that the seller's pictures were darker and showed good details, but not like the NGC pictures. I am not aware of the Bowers Encyclopedia of Colonial coins but I will Google that. I have since acquired a VF Details example in an NGC slab (for $395, pictured below), and I'm not sharp enough to see this first one was an obvious fake (lol, or I wouldn't have bought it and sent it in for grading). I have had good luck buying from sellers who appear reputable on eBay - this is my first setback in 20 years (I've gotten a few cheap fakes, don't get me wrong, usually in lots), so I'll just be even more cautious going forward - and less likely to buy raw coins and tokens (especially in excess of $100). I consider this an educational opportunity (silver linings!) but I am disturbed that eBay won't let me post honest feedback and that he's got another expensive raw "rarity" up for sale now - I am concerned that he will continue selling counterfeit coins going forward to unsuspecting buyers.

 

Don't be silly. Sue an opinion over an opinion....I want to see the granting Cert for that.

After all, a reading of the Post being opined as Libel, the word check replaced "maybe" with "my"....maybe Libel Thinking, a new Thought Law in the making.

To keep this entire Thread simple, I would refer all participants to take the time to read Jack Young's Post of 28 March 2020 in U.S. Coin Forum

It is still clear in my memory every time I view a an Elephant Token offered. I keep a copy of it, along with a copy of the Coin Week article, with my EAC reference books.

It is the reason I posted what I did.

While what happened to the OP is disappointing, it does not change the simple fact that buying an Elephant Token should NEVER be undertaken without a hell of a lot of research, and I definitely.....definitely would not purchase from an unknown source.

If several TPGs have been duped, then explain the theory of Slander/Libel you suggest, for an opinion...is it that TPGs DON'T make errors?

 

No.

 

You did your due diligence, and I know, we have all made mistakes. I have bought my share of fakes as well...

Having seen many Elephant Tokens the one you bought seems "just wrong" - too well struck and perfect, the legends are wrong, the color is wrong, the lack of dentilation on the obverse, the whole "fabric" is suspicious. And, the price is too low for such an apparently perfect example.

My own example if in low grade, but even so, it cost around $400. Sorry for the poor pics.

 

I dunno - that seems like an opinion to me. Even if you're saying it's not an opinion because it's a fact, coin grading is quite often considered by many to be subjective, as in the grader has an opinion on what the grade should be. Sounds like you just want to argue semantics, I was merely suggesting that if it's questionable (which now seems that it isn't) then why not have someone else take a look at it.

 

I don't agree.

 

Ok. You are missing the point, but OK. It was not purchased with a TPG opinion.
Savvy? Due Diligence.....

 

Please....

 

Agreed - it wasn't purchased with a TPG opinion. Just not sure why my saying get a 2nd opinion, you know after he got a FIRST opinion started off that whole conversation. lol - but ya, I'm saavy to what you meant now.

Seems there's little doubt this is a fake at this point anyhow. Hopefully the OP has some luck with the credit card company.

 

Again, if anyone was getting sidetracked.

 

Ok, so I've read through the post that Charley is talking about. Very interesting read btw even though I have no interest in this coin. You can read it here - https://www.cointalk.com/threads/the-counterfeit-elephant-in-the-room.357389/

But now, I'm going back and looking at the original NGC pictures posted of the OP's "fake" example. When comparing it to the picture provided in Jack Young's Post that shows 2 known fakes and a known genuine example. The OP's coin looks closer to the genuine example than the fakes to me.

I'm focusing on the trunk, and the rear feet of the elephant.

What am I missing?

 

ICG will at least encapsulate it as a fake like they do henning nickels.

 

Where's @Jack D. Young

 

I am very sorry this happened to you. Counterfeits take all the fun out of collecting.

One of the big problems is the ridiculous time it takes to get coins graded and authenticated these days. The lag is so long that the return period runs out. It’s one of the reasons why I don’t send material in for grading any more. If I want it certified, I buy it certified. If I prefer it raw, I buy it raw.

Getting coins, tokens and paper money graded is expensive and time consuming these days.

 

Yes, one of the major TPGs certified a bad one, and CAC put a sticker on it. Both mistakes were corrected, but it was certainly disappointing and inconvenient for those involved.

I also saw a one that was mislabeled as the much rarer Carolina variety when it was the much more common “God preserve London,” piece. It was an easy catch if you looked at the piece, but that “mechanical error” would have been costly if you didn’t.

 

It's all wrong. The skin folds on the elephant are too pronounced and the lettering is too thick. It will have been made from a cast based on the letters. Pictures of the relevant die attached from Peck and another as sold by DNW in 2018.

 

There were some pretty good "copies" that made it into TPG genuine holders; the Op's isn't one of them.

My latest Coin Week article on these: https://coinweek.com/from-the-dark-corner-an-authenticated-counterfeit-1694-elephant-token/

 

Maybe the "colons" that look like cow patties?