Baldwin's St.James - shambolic, unprofessional bunch

Many problems with Baldwin's of St. James. I've been a bidder with them and have won many lots. I was a regular with St. James before the merger and received excellent customer service (bought many items from them.) after the merger and until auction #46, I recieved good service at purchased a couple high priced items. Starting with auction #46 and now with #47 - the customer service has been disgraceful (non-existent). Being a valued customer that had been planning to have them auction a high end collection - this is very surprising and alarming.

They have lost the chance to auction my collection and unless the problems are fixed, they will be losing a valued customer as well. What a shame.

 

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What specifically is the problem with their customer service? Non-responsiveness to communications? Delays in shipments? Something else?

 

Lack of communication is an understatement. I tried to contact them at least eight times - twice through their website, three times to their general email address, along with direct emails to three of their employees (although, I wonder if they are still employed - something is going on there).

Also lack of bidder assistance - technical issue or human error on their part.

 

I suppose the pandemic could be an excuse if they have fewer employees working than normally, but other dealers and auctioneers seem to manage to respond to inquiries despite the current situation. I imagine that they have enough employees to be able to take people's money!

 

I was giving them a bit of leeway because of the virus - buts it gone past that. It's a real shame. My wish is that St. James divest itself from the merger and to it alone.

 

Buyer's fees are not the only fees. These numbers underestimate the loss upon selling. It is common to have a 15-20% seller's fee, too. Let's call it 15% which is the low end except for very expensive coins. So, if a coin hammers at $1000 the buyer pays $1200 and the seller gets $850. So, with a 20% buyer's fee and an 15% seller's fee the seller gets 70.8% (850/1200) of the price paid (not counting shipping, insurance, exchange-rate fees, PayPal or credit-card fees). So, to break even, a coin that cost you $2400 would have to sell to the buyer for $3390 (and hammer at $2824, as stated in the original).

Do not confound "hammer price" and "cost". They are much different.

 

If you feel the dealers are bidding up the prices so they can sell to billionaires who who have more money than common sense, maybe you would be better off selling rather than buying. Nothing wrong with making an honest profit. Take the money and run. At some point, the billionaires will find some thing else for amusement and you can buy them back at pennies on the dollar.

Just because a dealer asks 2x the hammer price, doesn't mean the coin is valued at that price by the market. I have a simple strategy for buying coins, if the dealer is asking more than I'm willing to pay, then I walk. If I spend more time walking than buying, then it might be time to reevaluate my perception of the market.

 

For your consideration, the first page of buyers for Glendining's sale of Henry Platt Hall's magnificent collection of ancient coins in 1950. Glendining would often publish, after the sale, additional catalogues that detailed prices realized as well as the buyers.

For those of you who believe that dealers buying coins from auctions is some sort of problem or even new phenomenon, just look at the horror of what used to happen 70 years ago! The vast majority of these coins were bought by dealers. This has always happened and it's perfectly normal and healthy. This is just a random example from my library.

The participation of individual collectors on a wide scale basis is a fairly recent occurrence and truly democratized because of the internet.

Some names are still in business today. As a hint, the dealers include: Baldwin, Spink, Seaby, Cahn, Spink, and Santamaria. Some of the others might be too, but there are the ones I recognize off hand.

 

Just fyi, Seaby isn't really still around anymore. CNG acquired its numismatic business circa 1991, and I believe Spink acquired all of its numismatic publications (like the annual UK coin catalogue).

 

Yep, this double dipping fee model the auction houses operate on is a bit rich.

Seems ripe for disruption.

 

Could you please also post the page where they mention the auction fees?

 

Absolutely. The auctioneers got excessively greedy over the last few years and the fees keep increasing. Who is to blame for that? But of course the collectors, us the junkies who accept it pathetically. And if the business is "hard", "risky" or "barely profitable" we wouldn't' see all those new auctioneers sprouting like mushrooms every few months.

The question is which is the disruption and how to implement it...

 

Keep in mind as a consignor I can also bid on my own coins so if I ever had to sell any of my coins in auctions I would gamble and drive the prices 4 times up which seems is good gamble given the current situation of market

 

This is the most glaring issue to me. While I am not sure how prevalent it is, why shill bidding is even allowed and accepted is beyond me. I wish we could collectively push auction houses to ban the practice as extremely anti-consumer friendly.

 

That's not quite true. Yes, buyer's fees are increasing but that's mostly due to decreasing consignor's fees. With the internet it became incredibly easy to start an auction business and with the growing competition for consignments, auctioneers have been constantly descreasing their consignor's fees. It's not uncommon that auction houses offer 0% consignor's fees or even negative ones, meaning that they share part of the buyer's fee with their consignors.

Sure, you can do that. But you may end up having to pay the buyer's fee plus the consignor's fee (if there is one) for buying your coins back. This may total in 20-35% of the hammer price. Personally, I wouldn't want to risk that

 

This is illegal in most countries and likely to get you banned from the auction house.

 

It is illegal, but somehow allowed on the CNG site, emphasis mine:

“1. The property listed in this catalogue is offered for sale by CNG for itself and as agent for various owners and other consignors. We reserve the right to reject any bid, to determine the opening price, to set bidding increments, to vary the order of the auction, to reopen bidding in the case of a dispute, to withdraw any lot, to bid on behalf of CNG, to bid on behalf of the consignor, to permit the auctioneer to bid on his own behalf, and to permit the consignor to bid on his own lots. CNG may loan or advance money to consignors or prospective bidders, and may have an interest other than commission charges in any lot. CNG may bid on its own account as an “insider” with information not available to the public.”

Note - I am not trying to single out CNG, it’s just the only auction house I buy from so I’m unaware of other auction houses terms.

 

It's déja vu all over again...

https://www.cointalk.com/threads/estimates-for-ancient-coin-auctions.360318/page-3#post-4518753

"Do consignors bid on their own lots? Sure, on occasion. And we try to delete them unless there are specific agreements in place that would allow an exception."

ATB,
Aidan.

 

Ha! I think I’m going insane from this quarantine. I knew I had posted this before. I think I need to take a break but I think the point still stands that ernstk was making - this kind of bidding is technically allowed and possible.

Edit: perhaps auction houses that allow these unique situations to occur should revise their language so that if people stumble upon the verbiage, they won’t need to go to a historic CT post to understand the nuance of it Stating perhaps a ban on the policy unless a consignor or someone receives special dispensation from the auction house? And then perhaps publicizing in an auction if it’s allowed? I’m very into transparency if y’all couldn’t tell May ruffle less feathers..

 

Curious, if various individuals are SO upset with the Auction Format, why do you buy from them? There are several other channels of distribution of Ancient Coins in this industry.

I have always told people, and I stated it before: Vote with your feet. If you do not like the venue, buy from other sources. It is actually the most POWERFUL means to change things. If everyone said that they could not afford the Auction Format for buying their coins, they will go elsewhere to buy. This would either drive the Auctions out of business, or it would force them to change their format.

Again: Market Dynamics drive the most efficient means of delivering goods to a market.

No government controls needed, just decisions made by informed consumers. And before any more conspiracy speak about "informed consumer", that needs only be defined as "Gosh, THAT price is too expensive for that Coin. I think I will go ELSEWHERE to buy my Coin."

Bottom line: Why is everyone griping about the Auction Format, when there are SO MANY other means of buying Ancient Coins???

If it is SO bad, then perhaps you need to put your money into alternative goods, such as another hobby, food for starving children, donations to needy people. These are excellent alternatives to folks busy thinking there will be mass revolts, if Auctions are not fixed to 20% profit, etc.