Where are all the ancient coin bulk lots?

I have been looking for bulk lots of average ancient coins for shop inventory. I live in North Carolina so I do not get a lot of people looking for ancients and the ones I do get are not generally looking for high end stuff like I can buy from CNG or Heritage. I have no interest in the "uncleaned" garbage you can buy on eBay. I used to be able to find the "in-between" nice looking Greek bronzes or 3-4th Century Romans, that make good coins for new collectors of ancients who want to "get their feet wet" with a nice looking coins at a good price point, but that material seems to have dried up. Where did it go?

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If you want to PM me with offers I'm open to that.

 

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Some of the smaller auctions like agora and vcoins have had decent lots for reasonable prices.

At the FUN show there are dealers trading lots like this quite frequently.

John

 

Roma usually has large lots of mid-quality late Roman coins

 

John, do you think such lots are less prevalent than they were say 10-15 years ago?

 

Good question I would have to look back at old auction catalogs to figure that out.

I will say that I wish I could buy lots of good quality uncleaned and partially cleaned coins now like you could in the early days of ebay.

 

The outlet that I was buying uncleaneds from based in the U.K. has gone out of business. Could it be that the supply of these coins is drying up? They were selling a lot of hoards of 1,500 or so coins, dividing them up into quarter kilo, half kilo, and kilo lots.

 

If you're talking about crustyromans I got the impression they closed because of changing laws, but I'm not sure where i got that impression.

 

That's the one I was thinking of. They had like 30,000 likes on Facebook.

 

In their thanks-for-the-support letter they said they could no longer find ethically-sourced coins. Now that you mention it, that could mean their sources just dried up, but because of the timing I just immediately assumed it was because of the shifting sands of antiquities laws.

 

..wasn't it "rustyromans"?.. that was my 1st buy of ancient coins back in 04..

 

The answer to this is multi-faceted and possibly disappointing. In the 'old days' hoards or small lots of coins were much easier to obtain. It really was a 'trickle down' concept. Most coins were handled by the larger (or largest) dealers where the best and/or rarest examples were selected for their inventories. What was left over was passed down to us 'little dealers' (bottom feeders if you will). In those days it was really quite important for the small dealer to be in business as we bought all the material the larger dealers had no time or interest in handling themselves. We picked up the slack and provided a much needed source of income for them.

Of course the internet changed all that. Now, anyone with a smart phone can become an instant dealer, even without the need for a reference library or any actual experience or knowledge. It is now much easier for large companies to dump a group of coins into a pile, take a second to shoot a picture, a few seconds more perhaps to photoshop the background...no need to lose any profit to a smaller dealer.

The same also applies to source dealers. 25 years ago there were plenty of eastern Europeans willing to sell hoards at rock bottom prices, but when the internet came of age they began to be our competition, not our sources.

So...hoards. Yes, there are still many countless coins to be had and they still come to market, just that the market has changed. And of course, there are still many hoards still sitting in vaults around the world where the owners are waiting for the right market conditions to release them.

So, where do you get these elusive coins for resale? Most of them are now in online auctions. Unfortunately you will have to compete with the entire world at large to get them. And of course sometimes one has to spend many thousands of dollars on these lots to get them at a low enough price to resell.

There are of course some collectors who wish to consign and not go to auction. Those are difficult enough to get. However, I would suggest if you really need a lot of inventory, make sure you go to larger coin shows where there will be ancient dealers in attendance. This is much easier on the east coast than the west (it has become a numismatic wasteland here the last 10 years). Ask around. Ask all of them. If they dont have them they may be willing to turn you on to someone who does.

Its a longer post than I intended, and there is much else to the topic, but that should give an idea, anyway.

 

Most of the group lots I have bought (maybe 20) have VF- to F material.

People don't seem to sell VF+ or better stuff in lots unless the lot is multiple $1000s of dollars. Often these lots sell for full retail per coin.

 

Check the lists of Dr. Ronald Kurlan - 23 Hemlock Rd. - Livingston, NJ 07309
He offers ancients in conditions from AG through Fine. He frequently offers
bulk groups all different that would match the OP's stated wants. I am a minor
buyer of lower grades so I don't know how much weight my name would carry
but it should get you a shot at being a new customer if you tell him I sent you
over from Coin Talk.

 

The question of the place of small coin dealers these days reflects the overall economy 'buy local' movements and people suggesting we should all be paying extra to 'mom and pop' stores and boycotting Amazon and Wal-Mart. My view is a small dealer needs to offer something extra, perhaps service or education, to offset the extra mark up they require between big dealer and end consumer. Just saying you are a dealer and posting some lots online does not make you entitled to making double your costs. I know dealers of both kinds that I would term 'small'.

Last April, I bout the lot of four below because I wanted one of the coins and saw the others as acceptable. Even selling over estimate it struck me as reasonable but no small dealer wanted it for resale so I got it. Most CNG sales have end of sale lots of 2 to 200 assorted coins that I assume feed the reseller market but making a profit after outbidding all of the other real and pretend resellers might require a bit of skill in selecting and discipline in walking away when the price passes what you know is reasonable. Not all small dealers make a profit.

After the fluff was added, it was $136. I decided to keep all four so which one was $50 and which was $15 makes not real difference to me like it would had a dealer bout it for resale. Deal? or Stupid buy?
https://www.cngcoins.com/Coin.aspx?CoinID=332744


https://www.cngcoins.com/Search.asp...1&SEARCH_IN_CONTAINER_TYPE_ID_4=1&VIEW_TYPE=0
That same sale have several other group lots which I did not win. I have to wonder if their buyers were satisfied, thrilled or bummed when they got their coins.

 

I can't see anyone making money buying CNG group lots.

They generally sell for close to full retail most of the time. The exception is when there are 20+ of the same exact coin, which most collectors do not want 20 of the same thing.

I have bought some because I enjoy actually attributing unknown coins instead of knowing exactly what I am getting for every coin. Buying lots is the only way to do that anymore, and is the only reason I buy them.

I would say half the lots I have bought from all sources are a major loss financially and the rest are ok. Many people compete for these as Doug says.

John

 

By the way, that is a really nice set of four coins, @dougsmit . Those are all attractive and interesting. Competition is what sets the market price, so what you paid seems to be the market price at that time. I don't think that was a bad buy, especially for a CNG lot.

Which of the four was your main target?

 

Totally agree with @Theodosius. Great grip of coins right there @dougsmit! But now I wanna know what was the one that made this a must buy??? The Constantine is a real beaut. As well is Crispus.Tacitus can be tricky and looks cool. But I'm putting my guess on Mr failed Usurper Magnentius. Though in the worst condition of the 4, imo. He is hardest to come by, has that cool A next to him (anyone know what that is there representing?) and you had said that there are many barbarous imitations of his and this sure doesn't look like one to me.
So who is it? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

Personally, I like the Magnentius the best as well.

What a neat color and patina.

 

Huh! I thought that was a Geta, though clearly it's not.

I Thought the CL before TACITUS was a GE and stopped reading once I thought I read Geta. I did wonder a bit at its LRBishness though...

 

I couldn't help but think of Sean Connery referring to some kind of "allure business" venture when I read, "LR bishness".