Weight of circulated morgan?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by scott1974, May 13, 2017.

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  1. scott1974

    scott1974 Member

    Hi,
    I don't have pics,but recently purchased some coins including an 1880 cc morgan.
    It's not magnetic,doesn't look cast,and doesn't seem to have any markers of a fake.
    The weight is 26.28 grams which kinda worried me... but I'm guessing it is in fine 12 condition and I have other morgans I know are real that when well worn have been under 26 sometimes.
    Does that weight sound fair for the frade?
    It is also a reverse of 1878 and u can get a hint of the convex chest from the wear.
     
    scott1974, May 13, 2017
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  3. Johndoe2000$

    Johndoe2000$ Well-Known Member

    No pic, no help. Just kidding. The weight could be correct, especially if heavily worn.
     
    Johndoe2000$, May 13, 2017
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  4. rte

    rte Well-Known Member

    26.73 in mint condition.
    A picture would help, but F12 at could be legit.
     
    rte, May 13, 2017
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  5. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    The tolerance off the top of my head is .097 gram +/-. Yours sounds low, even at G/VG . My question is what the resolution of your scale to measure it? Specific gravity would be easiest non damaging test if you don't have a friend with a XRF analyzer. Photos might help very much for possible counterfeit .
     
    desertgem, May 13, 2017
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  6. scott1974

    scott1974 Member

    1494726716556-889087235.jpg 14947267823431123378910.jpg
     
    scott1974, May 13, 2017
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  7. scott1974

    scott1974 Member

    I have weighed a g6 peace dollar I know is real... 26.19....... another worn morgan I have from dealer 26.28.
    So I know wear can have an effect
     
    scott1974, May 13, 2017
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  8. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    I think the coin is real but you need a new scale.
     
    ldhair, May 13, 2017
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  9. scott1974

    scott1974 Member

    I put a bu morgan on before that... 26.73....lol
     
    scott1974, May 13, 2017
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  10. rte

    rte Well-Known Member

    Scott
    Do a little more checking with a few more tools.
    Here are a couple that my Dad got in from Canada by way of China.
    These were pretty easy to discount, under weight, under size and too thick.

    fake morgan dia.jpg fake morgan thickness.jpg
     
    rte, May 14, 2017
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  11. rte

    rte Well-Known Member

    One of the 1880-CC 90% silver Morgan Dollars from China that I have seen has the CC in a larger font than the original.
    China copies

    china copy coins.jpg

     
    rte, May 14, 2017
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  12. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    Yes wear can have an effect on the weight of a coin, but rarely does wear have any appreciable effect on the weight of a coin until the wear reaches the VG to G grade or lower. In VG weight loss will vary but is still typically minimal. IN G and lower the weight loss numbers increase.

    But with the coin you've pictured at 26.28, I believe you are right to be suspect for there is no way it would have lost that much weight given its condition. Even accounting for the tolerance from the mint at at its maximum of 0.097, (assuming Jim is correct) the coin should still weigh at least 26.60 gm.

    Even understanding that there's still several possibilities. The coin may be fake, your scale may be inaccurate, your scale may need to be calibrated. So you still don't know anything definitive.

    You mentioned that you weighed a BU Morgan and it showed 26.73. And that may well be an accurate weight, but it could also be off quite a bit. I say that because given the mint's weight tolerance, any BU coin could weigh anywhere from 26.633 to 26.827 and be quite genuine. And that's a difference of almost 2 tenths of a gram - for a BU coin.

    But to get to the numbers you're talking about, 26.28 and 26.19, those are differences of half a gram, or more. And that is unlikely even given wear, unless the coin is worn almost slick.

    To help you understand what I'm talking about take a look at this coin.

    AGE.jpg AGE rev.jpg


    Even worn that much, (I would grade it no better than F15) that coin only lost 0.003 of a gram in weight. And that's actual lost weight from what the coin weighed when I got it.

    So do you see what I mean ?

    Now if you don't have a calibration weight for your scale to test the scale itself, take the coin to a jeweler and ask them to weigh it for you, to at least 2 decimal points. Then compare that number to what your scale says. That will tell you if your scale is off or not. I'm not saying it is, I'm just saying it's possible it is.
     
    GDJMSP, May 14, 2017
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  13. Dave Waterstraat

    Dave Waterstraat Well-Known Member

    Your Morgan is a reverse of 1878 of which only 2 die pairings (VAMs) exist. It should be pretty easy to compare the details, mainly the over-date, of yours to the VAM-4 and VAM-7 listings. I do believe you have an authentic 1880-cc Morgan.
    http://www.vamworld.com/1880-CC+Reverses
     
    Dave Waterstraat, May 14, 2017
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  14. davidh

    davidh soloist gnomic

    If you have other known genuine Morgans weighing under 26 grams, why does 26.28 grams concern you?
     
    davidh, May 14, 2017
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  15. scott1974

    scott1974 Member

    Dave w was right... thank you.... markers for VAM 7 are apparent under a loupe.
    Which means coin is real....
    I recalibrate my scale... Unc Morgan are spot on... this coin was still same weight. Went to a friends house with different scale... same result... we weighed a peace dollar in vg/f... weighed less than mine.
    Thanks dave
     
    scott1974, May 14, 2017
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  16. willieboyd2

    willieboyd2 First Class Poster

    Morgan silver dollars are supposed to weigh around 26.73 gm.

    My grandmother lived near Reno and pulled these worn specimens out of circulation in the 1960's along with many others.
    They no doubt were used at the casinos there.
    I graded them using the Redbook grades.

    [​IMG]
    United States Dollar 1896-O Very Fine 26.20 gm
    98% of normal

    [​IMG]
    United States Dollar 1897-O Fine 25.94 gm
    97% of normal

    :)
     
    willieboyd2, May 14, 2017
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  17. scott1974

    scott1974 Member

    Thanks willie..... you guys have made me feel alot better about it.
     
    scott1974, May 14, 2017
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  18. Fidel

    Fidel New Member

    Hello have silver mirgan coin weights 23 7 g
    Any chance it's real
     
    Fidel, Oct 19, 2020
    #17 + Quote Reply
  19. longshot

    longshot Enthusiast Supporter

    That's seriously off, can you post a picture?
     
    longshot, Oct 19, 2020
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  20. Mr.Q

    Mr.Q Well-Known Member

    Sounds real and within tolerance level for weight, pic's would help a lot, thanks for the question and good luck.
     
    Mr.Q, Oct 19, 2020
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  21. Mountain Man

    Mountain Man Well-Known Member

    Might want to start your own new thread as this one is over 3 years old.
     
    Mountain Man, Oct 19, 2020
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