Recently read an article about uncirculated coins. My question is if you go to the bank and purchase rolls say of quarters. Would they be considered uncirculated.?
You can get a coin as change from your purchase at any store, and as long as that coin meets the one and only defining characteristic of an uncirculated coin - a coin that has no wear - then the coin is indeed uncirculated. The point is it does not matter where or how you get the coin. Whether it is in a roll, a bag, a cashier's drawer, or even somebody's pocket - as long as the coin has no wear it IS uncirculated. Conversely, the opposite is also true. No matter where or how you get the coin, if it does have wear on it - then it IS circulated ! Even when the TPGs say it isn't
GD I'd agree on part of your statement. As was presented in the article but what was also brought up you fine coins that are in circulation now the keyword is in circulation. There is a distinction between in circulation and uncirculated which you know as well as I do that means that coin is not been in the general public circulation. And I'm sure like you and many other members I have found coins that I have gotten from the 711 that look better than the coins that I have in mint sets for that year. And GD with your eloquent speech on the mint's press as soon as that coin leaves the press were most of the bangs dents and scratches occur going into the been. Now these coins have not even left the mint yet but they show signs of wear. But yet they have not reached the general public yet. The same as some of the mint rolls I bought. I have found coins that are in circulation that look better than the coins that never went into circulation. GD by definition you're absolutely correct. But I believe the author of the article was trying to do distinguish between a coin that was in circulation and like you said does not show anywhere or signs of damage by definition would be considered uncirculated or even possibly bu uncirculated. But if you go by the actual words themselves. A coin that has been going through the public's hands cannot be considered uncirculated. By definition of the word because it was in public circulation through the community until it came into your hands.I believe the gentlemen's point in the article was that when a coin hits the general public. It can no longer officially be And uncirculated coin because it is being put into circulation. Now you if you happen to get a coin that the vendor breaks out of a roll. That coin can be considered uncirculated.I have found coins in circulation. That if I was to put them up for sale I would have to be honest in my advertising by saying I have a circulated MS 60 DDR. Or whatever number it would possibly grade out to be. I would be falsifying this statement by saying it is an uncirculated MS 60 DDR's which the coin was picked out of circulation.You can go on eBay and find hundreds of these uncirculated coins that were actually pulled out a circulation and classified under your statement. All I know GD I found the article interesting and brought up a lot of interesting points. And since we have a diverse membership I'm curious to see what other people think about it.USMC60 PS GD. The only reason I question your opening statement is because I've got mint sets that the mint sells as uncirculated mint set but yet the coins in that mint set do not meet the criteria that you laid out there some of the horribly looking coins. But yet they're still in the original mint packaging classified as uncirculated mint coin sets. And I'm sure I'm not the only member that has a lot of these uncirculated mint sets and basically don't pass the grade.I believe this is one of the points the author of the article was trying to point out.
I realize that circulated/uncirculated can be confusing and were probably poor choices as descriptors, but as Doug said, it doesn't matter where a coin came from; all that matters is its condition. Yes, there are instances when we know a coin's history, but a great majority of the time we do not and is why judging it only on its present condition is so very important. You're certainly correct in that there are mint sets that contain coins that do not meet the definition of "uncirculated" even though they've never been in actual circulation. It's unfortunate, yes, but is a prime example of why each coin must be looked upon as the individual it is and judged accordingly. You absolutely can have a coin that, based upon its merits, grades into the MS range even though it was pulled from change or circulation, so no... you wouldn't be misrepresenting it in the given example. Again, being as we rarely can know a coin's true history (and even if we do, others do not and is why TPGs don't grade based upon customer claims) the only logical approach is to judge it based solely upon what the coin tells us and what we see, and is why a coin pulled from circulation can grade out as "uncirculated" and one that's never been in actual circulation can fall into the "circulated" category.
Think of "uncirculated" as grade rather than a condition. A coin as struck normally has a nice even shiny luster all over it. Coins wear from the highest points of the design down so as long as this luster is intact on the highest points the coin is in the grade of "uncirculated" even if it somehow had been in the condition of circulating for many years. Perhaps everyone handled it carefully by the edges or it circulated in a plastic capsule its grade is still "uncurculated" and nothing but wear will change the grade.
We do manage to get ourselves tied up in knots about semantics...cleaning, conservation or harsh cleaning...PMD - what does it really mean...uncirculated - it must be, I got it from a bank!!!
I don't know I may be old school. But I honestly cannot say when I find a quarter in circulation. Call it an uncirculated coin. To me that's like saying oil and water mix which we all know oil does not completely mix with water. But I've also found coins and in circulation at least in my observation would qualify as a MS 60 or a MS 65 example like I have done many times I have bought rolls of coins from the mint. I may be wrong but when I look at a roll that I buy from the mint I can honestly say that that is an uncirculated roll of coins and even if I break that role up and sell them individually I feel comfortable saying that they are uncirculated. Because they came from the mint to me and have not passed through general circulation. It's just like a box that I bought last week from the bank. Since I know what to look for all 50 rolls are all uncirculated Harpers Ferry's. I found out years ago in South Florida the Federal Reserve we have down here. When new coinage is issued and due to the weight of the bags. They come in the South Florida's train freight yard in a regular freight container loaded into an armored heavy hauler and transported to the Dade County Federal Reserve. And from there the coinage goes to the rolling facility I know Loomis has one down here. And rolled into rolls and sent to the banks. I have no problem considering them uncirculated. Because the mint set the coins to the Federal Reserve in Dade County then directly to the rollers then to the bank. These coins never hit circulation until the bank gives them out to the businesses and individuals. I'm only familiar with how Loomis rolls these coins so I know what boxes of coins to asked for at my bank. When they give me a regular box of quarters I know they are all circulated by what kind of box they come in. I don't know maybe it's just me I just have a problem telling someone that the coin is uncirculated when I knew that I found this coin in a circulated roll of coins. And if I'm not mistaken what a coin is considered judges the price on that coin. And I'm sure if I go back through some of my threads some of the coins I showed would be considered uncirculated by the standards being put forth here on this thread. But in my thread on that particular coin if I found it in circulation I generally say this well circulated. I have not yet displayed a coin that I found in circulation as a uncirculated coin. But I'm just an old Marine.
No that is not key word, and no there is not any distinction. You need to understand that hits, dings, more properly called contact marks, do NOT constitute wear. Wear is an entirely different thing than contact marks. Yes it can. Like I said, even if a coin is in a cashiers drawer at the store - and that's definitely in the public's hands - that coin can still be, and often is, uncirculated - by definition ! And that's because there is only 1 definition for an uncirculated coin - and that is a coin with no wear. Period, end of story. That said, can a coin get actual wear on it without ever leaving the mint ? Yes, it absolutely can ! But that does not mean that it absolutely will get wear on it before it leaves the mint. And by the same token a coin can absolutely be in actual circulation, in other words it can be being used in commerce, and still not get any wear on it. That right there, what I just said above, is why there is only one definition for an uncirculated coin - a coin that has no wear. And this is not something new, this is as "old school" as it gets ! Now I'll grant you a lot of people just don't understand this. They just don't get how a coin "be in actual circulation" and yet still be uncirculated. That's because "uncirculated" is a condition, and "in circulation" is a state of existence. Two entirely and completely different things.
Coin grading services do not know, for the most part, the history of the coin they are grading, so must use the criteria that has been stated previously. If it shows no signs of wear, it is uncirculated,regardless where it actually came from. That may not be the actual correct history,( may have came from a bank drawer, pocket, or whatever ) if it shows no sign of wear it is referred to as uncirculated. May not be perfectly true, but that is how coins are graded.
Really GD. in Numismatic as you been preaching quite eloquently and you are right with this statement that you make about no difference. Let me just say really. I know I can get a lot more money for an uncirculated piece than I would get From a circulated piece depending on the coin. So I guess there is kind of a difference. GD you also have to remember one thing.NUMISMATIC collectors is a very small percentage of the population. And this is what I believe the author of the article was trying to state. Ordinary people look at a coin this way circulated means it's been in circulation. Uncirculated means it has not been in the public's hands.And as you have stated up in your statement most people do not get this because they are not coin collectors or have not invested much time and research. They take the words literally. And GD you don't know how many times I tried to explain this to someone that's just a weekend collector and maybe pulls coins out of his change that looks strange and decides to keep it. This is a majority the people you deal with in public at least I do. And I can't see why all of you think that I do not understand Numismatic terminology. Like I've said since I joined coin talk. it's definitely needed that a lot of changes need to be in terminology. As we grow as a society so should Numismatic. And I will concede since I started collecting there has been a few changes. But in my observation it looks like molasses goes uphill a lot faster than change in Numismatic.I can only hope in my lifetime I can see these changes come about but unfortunately I believe that changes will not come until a lot of the hard heads are no longer with us. And the new generation of collectors can take over. And simplify things to work so everyone can understand without having to go to their smart phones and pulling up NUMISMATIC terminology.Which even today a lot of people don't even waste their time doing that. And unfortunately the change that is around the corner is going to eliminate physical money itself. The new generation is moving into a new digital and plastic society. Who knows what the future holds.usmc60
So, let me get this straight, if someone steals a proof set and breaks out a proof coin and spends it and you get it in change, it isn't a proof coin?
Kentucky like the other member said. And did you read the article in Numismatic News of how the mint was salting production coins with common coinage blanks being struck with proof dies and those coins put into circulation to help promote coin collecting. Or as in the article revitalize coin collecting in today's age. I know I pulled a few of these coins out of circulation and have to go into my archives to find some.
No, it's still a proof. A proof is a type of manufacture. If handled and spent its grade will decrease. If a proof has some wear on it...it may only grade PF45 for example. It's still a proof but has been circulated. I have always felt that the term "uncirculated" was a generic way to describe any coin that would have a MS grade. It's simple a way to describe a coin with no wear on it.
I have a 64 Kennedy that I'm keeping as a pocket piece. It started as a high AU/low MS, and after several months of contact with other coins and daily handling it is still well into the AU range and has some luster remaining. I think we overestimate how quickly a coin will show wear. My pocket piece is made of a softer metal (silver), so just think how much longer it takes for clad coins to show noticeable wear.
usmc - you're right about one thing - people, a lot of people anyway, including a lot of people who are members of this forum, do not use words correctly. They may "think" a word means one thing when it actually means something entirely different. In other words they don't know the real, the true, definition of the word they are using. And it is also important to realize and understand that the very same word can have entirely different meanings depending upon the context in which it is being used. Now that is all due to just one thing - ignorance. Now even that word, some will take it to be a derogatory term - but it isn't, not in any way, shape, or form. It merely means there is something they do not know. And for every single person on this planet there is a whole lot of things they do not know. All of us, are ignorant about some things, and some of us more than others. But that doesn't change anything, what is - is.
My reply was intended to stir a little...how do you know it is a proof...because you examined it...how do you know it is uncirculated...because you examined it!
