the "smoothing" process

I just purchased a slabbed coin that had "smoothing" written on the write up. I think I know what that means but I have two questions. Just what is the process used to smooth a coin? Emery paper? Wire brush? That is, how does one go about smoothing a coin? Second, how much does smoothing detract from a coin's value? The coin itself just looks like it had considerable wear and had it not been labelled as "smoothing", I would not have known it. Thanks

 

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Smoothing can be a natural part of the cleaning process. It depends on severity and that severity can kind of tell you intent as well.

To clean off encrustations, you use a metal tool to peel them off. This will naturally tend to smooth down the metal on the coin. However, if a coin has a rough surface, some will intentionally smooth the fields of the coin, to make it look better. Best way I know to detect it is to look at small field areas that would be very difficult to smooth. Those areas should look just like the large flat areas. If they are much rougher, then chances are the coin was smoothed.

Detraction of smoothing is not bad. Most ancient collectors accept it unless blatant. Tooling, however, (adding details to a coin), is NEVER acceptable and greatly diminishes a coins value.

 

If it is being done by a skilled person, they will use a metal burnisher, such as jewelers use to remove 'scarring' from gold or silver jewelry. Done properly. and with a small amount of finishing with high count diamond grit, you can't detect it with 10X.

 

People also use 600 then 1200, etc grit cone shaped rubber sanding attachments on dremels to smooth the fields by sanding away adhesions and corrosion.

 

medoraman, posted: "Smoothing can be a natural part of the cleaning process. It depends on severity and that severity can kind of tell you intent as well."

While this may be the way "modern" collectors look at it, "Smoothing" is a flowery term (similar to "environmentally damaged" = CORRODED) that was cooked up by someone long after I became a professional numismatist to indicate that the surface of a coin was mechanically altered! Long ago, when this practice was totally unacceptable , it was considered to be a fraudulent alteration that greatly diminished the coin's value. Cleaning is not the same as scraping metal from/on a surface to fill holes and remove raised chunks of corrosion.

Thanks for reading just one man's opinion that will not change the "market acceptability" of these altered coins.

"To clean off encrustations, you use a metal tool to peel them off. This will naturally tend to smooth down the metal on the coin. However, if a coin has a rough surface, some will intentionally smooth the fields of the coin, to make it look better. Best way I know to detect it is to look at small field areas that would be very difficult to smooth. Those areas should look just like the large flat areas. If they are much rougher, then chances are the coin was smoothed."

Excellent info!

"Detraction of smoothing is not bad. Most ancient collectors accept it unless blatant. Tooling, however, (adding details to a coin), is NEVER acceptable and greatly diminishes a coins value."

Many such as myself consider tooling and smoothing to be similar unacceptable alterations. When you can detect it or are told about the alteration, a collector can make an informed decision on the purchase.

PS I've been told if you know what the genuine surface of a coin of any age should look like, just about anything done to a coin's surface is detectable using florescent light and a stereo microscope at 7X to 10X. One day I'll need to try it.

 

Thanks. I started collecting coins in the late 1950's and until this year I had never even heard of the term before.

 

It might be educational and informative if someone were able to post side-by-side examples of the following:

1. An ancient bronze that has been cleaned but has verifiably not been smoothed.
2. An ancient bronze that has been smoothed but not tooled.
3. An ancient bronze that has been tooled.

Personally, I've never seen item #1, at least not a verifiable example of such a coin.

Examples of #2 and #3 are plentiful.

 

Fair point. I should have stated more clearly that some smoothing is simply a part of the cleaning process, and it was not really intended to smooth, just clean. That is the mechanical scraping I was referring to. If it gets to the point they are using fine grade sandpaper, or filling in pits, that is intentional smoothing, (or doctoring), and is not NEARLY as acceptable. I may buy a coin that has been filled or intentionally polished in a pinch as I consider it not AS bad as tooling, but intentional polishing or filling should always be disclosed and is NOT just "smoothing".

So, to restate, almost all ancients have been inadvertently smoothed during cleaning. That is fine and generally acceptable. Intention actions like polishing or filling in pits is NOT just "smoothing", but really coin doctoring and NOT generally acceptable by collectors as an original coin.

 

+1

 

kevin McGonigal, posted: "Thanks. I started collecting coins in the late 1950's and until this year I had never even heard of the term before."

I never heard of the word until after I joined CT. One of the ancient collectors wrote that the term was being used by auction companies. I have a large number of ancient coin auction catalogues going back to the 1970's. Unfortunately, I don't have the time or the need to try to determine when this crap started to help sell these crudely, altered coins. I've never seen a "smoothed" coin that is even REMOTELY deceptive! I'll bet it was a US auction company that "coined" the term. Hopefully. someone with time on their hands will search for the "earliest know use" of the word.

IdesOfMarch01, posted: "It might be educational and informative if someone were able to post side-by-side examples of the following:

1. An ancient bronze that has been cleaned but has verifiably not been smoothed.

At one time, I worked for an ancient coin dealer. While I'll agree that the majority of ancient coins have been cleaned, I've seen thousands and thousands of genuine ancients that have not been altered in any other way. Take a look at the next plastic bag of hoard coins. You may find a few coins that have not been tooled, or smoothed.

2. An ancient bronze that has been smoothed but not tooled.

This will be a problem for me as taking a "tool" and moving metal around the surface of a coin either to remove corrosion, strengthen details, add details, fill holes, make repairs, etc. is all a FORM OF ALTERATION CALLED "TOOLING" by the professional authenticators I have known.

3. An ancient bronze that has been tooled.

We've all seen these on Ebay and here.

Personally, I've never seen item #1, at least not a verifiable example of such a coin. Examples of #2 and #3 are plentiful."

This would definitely be a great educational project. Unfortunately, it seems we (me , myself , and I) cannot even get an agreement on the definitions for characteristics on coins that we are throwing around in this thread.

medoraman, posted: "I should have stated more clearly that some smoothing is simply a part of the [IMPROPER] cleaning process, and it was not really intended to smooth [?], just clean [By physically changing the coin's surface in a major and easily detectable way?] . That is the mechanical scraping [tooling] I was referring to. If it gets to the point they are using fine grade sandpaper, or filling in pits, that is intentional smoothing, (or doctoring), and is not NEARLY as acceptable. I may buy a coin that has been filled or intentionally polished in a pinch as I consider it not AS bad as tooling, but intentional polishing or filling should always be disclosed and is NOT just "smoothing." So, to restate, almost all ancients have been inadvertently smoothed during [IMPROPER] cleaning. That is fine and generally acceptable. Intention actions like polishing or filling in pits is NOT just "smoothing", but really coin doctoring and NOT generally acceptable by collectors as an original coin."

In addition to "smoothing" and "tooling," my definition of cleaning is probably very different from that of the majority of ancient coin collectors/dealers so we'll just disagree - no big thing. I've enjoyed the discussion.

 

Here is a good example of smoothing. This coin is being sold at the moment by a dealer whom to his credit noted the smoothing.

Notice that the obverse fields by the legend are bumpy with encrustration and corrosion/patina, but the fields by the bust of the emperor are very smooth. The difference is obvious.

Is this an acceptable coin to you despite the smoothing? I don't know, you decide.

 

Who would care to define tooling and smoothing. I have seen many, many definitions and most of them different. My definitions are as follows:-

Smoothing:-
Removal of metal from the fields of a coin to create a smoother appearance to the surface of the coin. Removal of layers of patina, encrustations etc. are variations on cleaning and NOT smoothing.

Tooling:-
Removal of metal from the devices or legends to either sharpen the design or to modify aspects of the design.

Feel free to disagree with these definitions but I thought I would set my version down.

Martin

 

You guys would do well to learn about the formation of patina as we find it on our coins, specifically bronze. Patina is not a mere coloration. Nor is it an encrustation, i.e adhesion that builds up, although it does form a "crust" encasing the coin. Patination (formation of patina) is the conversion of the metallic coin surface into a layer of a non-metallic chemical salt of the coin metal itself. Patina builds from the outermost surface DOWN into the fabric of the coin. What this means is that removing adhesions above the surface level of the coin is simply cleaning. But removal of material below the surface level is a removal of some of the original coin surface itself, and that is an irreparable alteration of the original coin, no matter how nicely it "presents." If "smoothing" only takes place above the original surface, it is not an alteration of the coin, merely its appearance. But if "smoothing" dips into the surface level to "even things up" it is an intentional alteration of the original coin and should be described with the coin.

Let your definitions come from the physical principles involved, and not from your "feelings."

 

Definitions (my personal definitions, open to modification and discussion)

Cleaning: Removal of surface debris and encrustations that were not part of the coin's surface when originally struck. Naturally occurring patinas may be removed inadvertently or purposely during this process.

Note that removal of surface debris and encrustations will necessarily make the coin's surface smoother, so this definition is probably too broad for certain posters to this thread. Unfortunately I can't think of any cleaning process that doesn't make a coin's surface smoother in some respect. This implies that it's theoretically impossible to clean a coin without smoothing it, thus my original note that I've never seen an ancient bronze that was cleaned but not smoothed (other than the uncleaned lots that come out of discovered hoards).

Smoothing: Removal of parts of a coin's original surface and/or naturally occurring patina to make the surface smoother and more even with any gouges or pitting that may have occurred after the coin was struck.

Tooling: The addition or removal of any material or features that were not part of the coin when it was originally struck. This includes the raising or lowering of any of the devices or fields.

I welcome any comments or suggestions about my definitions. I find them to be usable, workable definitions when applied to coins that I'm considering acquiring.

 

IMHO, NOW WE ARE GETTING SOMEWHERE! Very educational, I may change my opinion. I'll write more later, busy at the moment as I'm "smoothing some stuff."

maridvnvm, posted:"Who would care to define tooling and smoothing. I have seen many, many definitions and most of them different. My definitions are as follows:-

Smoothing: "Removal of metal from the fields of a coin to create a smoother appearance to the surface of the coin." [Agree] Removal of layers of patina, encrustations etc. are variations on cleaning and NOT smoothing. [but you are making the surface smoother - right? So which is it, smoothing or variations of cleaning? See the problem?]

Tooling: "Removal of metal from the devices or legends to either sharpen the design or to modify aspects of the design." [Agree]

lrbguy , posted: You guys would do well to learn about the formation of patina as we find it on our coins, specifically bronze. Patina is not a mere coloration. Patination (formation of patina) is the conversion of the metallic coin surface into a layer of a non-metallic chemical salt of the coin metal itself. What this means is that removing adhesions above the surface level of the coin is simply cleaning. But removal of material below the surface level is a removal of some of the original coin surface itself, and that is an irreparable alteration of the original coin, no matter how nicely it "presents." If "smoothing" only takes place above the original surface, it is not an alteration of the coin, merely its appearance. But if "smoothing" dips into the surface level to "even things up" it is an intentional alteration of the original coin and should be described with the coin."

LOVE IT!!! BEST ANSWER NOMINATION!

 

Those are great definitions IOM. By using the original surface level as the point of differentiation between cleaning and alteration, you allow for a clearer understanding of what improper "smoothing" entails. With this it becomes possible to imagine a coin which has been "cleaned" but not "smoothed." That is an entirely proper distinction to make.

 

Thanks.

When I evaluate potential coins for acquisition, I try to envision those coins relative to how they may have looked after they were originally minted.

For example, I have any number of coins that display a weak strike in certain areas, and if the devices in those areas had been enhanced by smoothing the surrounding fields, then the coin would be unacceptable even though others may consider it just to be smoothing.

On the other hand, I realize that removal of surface encrustations will inevitably smooth the surface somewhat and may even remove small amounts of the patina or metal that adheres to the encrustation when it's removed. As long as this isn't overly done, I consider such coins acceptable.

Here's an example of two similar coins, the top one of which (mine) displays acceptable cleaning and whatever smoothing (I can't really detect it), and the bottom one showing overly smoothed surfaces that neither my dealer nor I would consider acceptable:





I note that in the lower coin, Caligula's cheek and neck area are much smoother than my coin, and the field in front of Caligula's portrait has been overly smoothed all the way to the legend between 8 and 10 o'clock.

By the way, I wouldn't necessarily criticize someone for buying the lower coin. By my definition of tooling, it isn't tooled, but it IS overly smoothed.

 

Establishing the true original surface of the coin becomes the point where experience takes command of the judgment. For these coins I freely admit I don't have it. Notwithstanding, to me the reddish material on the surface of the reverse of the lower coin, looks like it could be a thin remnant of a broad adhesion that is not quite yet down to the original surface. Neither coin has a complete round of beading surrounding the reverse type scene. Both lose definition above the name DRVSILLA. More beading is evident in the lower coin. Before I said that either or neither coin had been "smoothed" I would want to look at that region, and the rest of the surface, under a 30x microscope, which is a principle tool I use when I clean a coin. Only that way would I be able to establish whether or not the surface had been "cut."

However, even from here it appears there are spots in the obverse lettering which have not been entirely cleaned of encrustation. Hence they would not be "below the surface." This leads me to wonder if that coin really has been "smoothed" below the original surface. Presumably the examiner who came to that conclusion was able to see things not in evidence in these images (a pretty safe assumption, I would think).

 

IdesOfMarch01, posted: "Definitions (my personal definitions, open to modification and discussion).

Suggestions:

Cleaning: Removal of surface debris and encrustations that were not part of the coin's surface when originally struck. Naturally occurring patinas may be removed inadvertently or purposely during this process. Note that removal of surface debris and encrustations will necessarily make the coin's surface smoother, so this definition is probably too broad for certain posters to this thread. Unfortunately I can't think of any cleaning process that doesn't make a coin's surface smoother in some respect. [An acetone wash is one. While some conservation (proper cleaning) does not affect the actual surface; technically, an acidic dip - also called proper cleaning when you cannot tell it was done - does remove impurities that were parts of a coin's surface.] This implies that it's theoretically impossible to clean a coin without smoothing it [Removing a film, dirt, or oxidation on a coin chemically is NOT "smoothing" its surface.], thus my original note that I've never seen an ancient bronze that was cleaned but not smoothed (other than the uncleaned lots that come out of discovered hoards).

Smoothing: Removal of parts of a coin's original surface and/or naturally occurring patina to make the surface smoother and more even with any gouges or pitting that may have occurred after the coin was struck.

Tooling: The addition [Tooling NEVER adds any additional material to a coin. It can move existing metal into another shape.] or removal of any material or features that were not part of the coin when it was originally struck. This includes the raising or lowering of any of the devices or fields.

I welcome any comments or suggestions about my definitions. I find them to be usable, workable definitions when applied to coins that I'm considering acquiring."

Remember, all these comments are just my opinions.


IMO the second posted coin is a very nice job. From the image, IMO they left scratches above "INA" in the small area that is harder to flatten out and the slightly depressed patch at 2 o'clock in the reverse field. I think it is "market acceptable" as is.

 

Would tooling be the proper designation where holes for attachment chains or cords were filled in a rare silver coin by a plug from a less valuable same composition coin and smoothed out for display or selling? I realize few have the skills and patience of old time artists/engravers, but I knew of a couple who practiced this very well for people willing to pay until about the 1970s. When the coins sold, there was often no mention of 'plug' unless it was done by a lesser technician. Jim