SHAKING HANDS...THUMBS UP

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by Ocatarinetabellatchitchix, Jun 27, 2021.

  1. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    I'm my good old days (before COVID), I used to shake hands almost every day in the context of my work. Right hand, firm grip, thumbs up (?). Didn't do so for 15 long months, not even sure if I remember how to do it the right way...Here's my latest acquisition, a Marius' antoninianus with a classic reverse type: clasped hands.
    For the Romans, the handclasp signified harmony, affinity, friendship, and loyalty. As the right hand was consecrated to the deity of fidelity, in scenes of a political nature the handclasp represented political concord at the conclusion of a contract. In the Antonine period, dextrarum iunctio became a symbol of the harmony of the imperial couple. Dexiosis reliefs are found on ancient coins and are they are intended to show bonds between two cities by shaking hands.

    3F7A6204-2E19-4599-88EE-B59CEB0E4656.jpeg

    Marius' three months of reign produced only a little varied coinage, whose political message is centered on his good understanding with the army (CONCORDIA MILITVM), the victory (VICTORIA AVG), the courage of the emperor ( VIRTVS AVG), and the happy times (SAEC FELICITAS) which should naturally follow. The reverse with legend CONCORDIA MILITVM (and its more or less abbreviated variations) represents a handshake. It was used among others under the Republic (denarius of Albinus Brutus),

    27942910-FF21-4FFA-BD8B-229604EF0B65.jpeg
    The oldest clasped hands ? (48 BC)


    and more closely by Pupienus and Balbinus. Its symmetry means that it can be read in both directions, by rotating 180 °, although the inverted configuration does not appear natural since the two thumbs are not "up". So, it is understandable that an engraver could make the mistake of not placing his hands in the right direction when he begins his work: this is what happened in the Treveri mint.

    261D7D5E-49CF-4B5C-9D1C-5232C3F24A8D.jpeg



    This "variant" has been noticed about 10 years ago in reference books and a recent article in the Bulletin numismatique talked about it. It will be understood that the error is not the fault of the engraver of the hands, but that of the engraver of the legend, which therefore appears upside down when the hands are placed in the right direction, as well. If this error can be understood, it is however the fact of unprofessional engravers: for comparison, the Roman engravers of Balbinus and Pupienus were never mistaken on the reverse of the same type, but if someone could prove me wrong I'd be happy to apologize; in fact, it would be fantastic if one of our members would find a single similar "error" in the coinage of one of the 25 Emperors who used that reverse ! Here are some specimen sold in the last years: (notice the thumbs "down")

    4467B10D-29B7-4C64-AE1E-D973C55580DE.jpeg

    C6A1FEC2-D345-4680-BE0B-4DC1271E83CF.jpeg

    073057D7-5921-4667-8FF9-FD6B250B6DCF.jpeg

    In conclusion and only for the pleasure of your eyes, this is the more expensive "clasped hands thumbs up" coin ever sold in the history: it is a unique Gallienus medallion of 8 aurei weighting 29.67g, hammer price of 420,000 CHF (457,000 USD) in 2002. Enjoy and feel free to show us your own clasped hands, Marius or any 420,000 $ medallion of yours...

    A5A842A1-9D9D-465F-9469-4FB1BF876376.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021
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  3. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    D Junius Brutus Albinus 1.jpg
    D. JUNIUS ALBINUS; GENS POSTUMIA
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: Hd of pietas r; PIETAS
    REVERSE: Clasped hands on caduceus; ALBINVS BRVTI.F
    Rome 48 BC
    3.91g. 19mm
    Syd 942
    Augustus 7.jpg
    AUGUSTUS
    AE Quadran
    OBVERSE: LAMIA SILIVS ANNIVS, clasped hands holding caduceus
    REVERSE: III VIR A A A F F around large S C
    Rome 9 BC
    3.0g, 15mm
    RIC 420, BMC 200, S 1693
    Titus 7.jpg
    TITUS
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: T CAES IMP VESP CENS, laureate head right, "o" beneath neck
    REVERSE: FIDES PVBL, hands clasped over caduceus, two poppies and two corn-ears
    Struck at Uncertain Asian Mint or Ephesus, 76AD
    2.9g, 19mm
    RIC V 1485 (Vesp), RPC 1459
    Ex David Atherton; ex Harry Sneh Collection; ex Sayles; ex Lavender
    Nerva 5.jpg
    NERVA
    AR Denarius
    OBVERSE: IMP NERVA CAES AVG P M TR P COS II P P, laureate head right
    REVERSE: CONCORDIA EXCERCITVVM, clasped hands holding legionary eagle resting on prow
    Struck at Rome 96 AD
    2.9g, 18mm
    RIC 3
    HERENNIUS ETRUSCUS 2.jpg
    HERENNIUS ETRUSCUS
    AR Antoninianus
    OBVERSE: Q HER MES DECIVS NOB C, Radiate and draped bust of Herennius right
    REVERSE: CONCORDIA AVGG, Clasped hands
    Struck at Rome, 250/1 AD
    3.53g, 21mm
    RIC138
     
  4. Andres2

    Andres2 Well-Known Member

  5. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    I have a Nerva As, date TR P COS III, rev. type Clasped Hands, with legend CONCORDIA EXERCITVVM and S C in field upside down as on the Marius antoniniani; acquired from Stacks Sale, 7 Dec. 1994, lot 2250.
     
  6. Harry G

    Harry G Well-Known Member

    Interesting thread!

    I have a Balbinus antoninianus with clasped hands reverse. I've posted it before, as I'm not sure if it's genuine or not (the fact that it was *only* £45 on eBay was not exactly promising though). It's quite underweight (3.33g), with a thin, possibly plated, flan. Maybe it's a fouree.
    balbinus.png

    I don't have any Marius clasped hands; just a regular one
    marius.png
     
  7. ambr0zie

    ambr0zie Dacian Taraboste

    One of the reverses I really wanted!
    upload_2021-6-28_0-17-51.png


    Antoninus Pius AD 138-161. Rome Denarius AR 19 mm., 2,90 g.
    RIC III Antoninus Pius 136
    Date Range: AD 145 - AD 161
    Obverse Legend: ANTONINVS AVG PIVS P P; Type: Head of Antoninus Pius, laureate, right
    Reverse Legend: COS IIII; Type: Clasped hands holding caduceus between two corn-ear
     
  8. Ryro

    Ryro Trying to remove supporter status

    Great thread idea and congrats on that sweet Marius!
    I would like to point out just "what a handshake is worth".
    Almost every case of ancient handshakes that I have ended in treachery:
    Augustus and Marc Antony. BFFs right?
    IMG_0615(1).PNG

    This is listed as the last coin of the Roman Republic!
    Screenshot_20210331-155400_PicCollage-removebg-preview.png


    Balbinus and Pupienus never could hide their hatred of each other:
    share8092905349880771210.png

    Plautilla's dad was Septimius Severus favorite. Then for no known reason Septy had him murdered, just like his son would do to his daughter (Caracalla's own wife) a few years later:
    share5209663096742631651.png

    And lastly Napoléon's second wife. The one who sold him out:
    20190713_123647_5AE16300-5BFD-4333-AA68-C51087DBDE44-2188-0000030EC63D86D0.png

    Yeah, kinda glad we aren't shaking hands anymore :nailbiting:
     
  9. Mammothtooth

    Mammothtooth Stand up Philosopher, Vodka Taster

    Bing has everything, can he adopt me ? Even if I am older than he is.
     
    Puckles and tibor like this.
  10. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    [​IMG]
    RImp Marc Antony & Octavian AR Quinarius 1.58g Military Mint Gaul 39BCE Concordia r Hands clasped caduceus Cr-529-4b Sear 1575 Syd-1195


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    RImp Marc Antony AR Quinarius Concordia Clasped Hands Caduceus Cr 529-4b
     
  11. Alegandron

    Alegandron "ΤΩΙ ΚΡΑΤΙΣΤΩΙ..." ΜΕΓΑΣ ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΟΣ, June 323 BCE

    [​IMG]
    RI Marius 269 Gallic Usurper BI Ant CONCORD MILIT Clasped Hands


    It is actually the Ren & Stempy butt bump.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

    its great to have any Marius's coins...(since i dont have any:p)..haha...good point @Ryro ...and Bing and i have one of the oldest?!?..kool :) IMG_0347.JPG IMG_0351.JPG
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2021
  13. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I'm 72, so if you're older I could still adopt you, but beware! My sons call me an old crumudgeon. Besides, I do not have everything. @dougsmit does (but I think he's another crumudgeon).
     
    Puckles, tibor, Alegandron and 3 others like this.
  14. Ocatarinetabellatchitchix

    Ocatarinetabellatchitchix Well-Known Member

    I found another one sold by Bertolami in 2012. I'd be curious to see yours, maybe same dies ?

    A1BD5DD8-2582-40FA-82E1-A7EBBE6C05AF.jpeg

    Oh, I almost forgot my promise." I would like to officially apologize to the engravers of the Gallic Empire whom I have qualified as incompetent. Those of Rome can be too."
     
  15. curtislclay

    curtislclay Well-Known Member

    Yes, mine is same dies, a little less well preserved, but still quite nice!

    I'm glad you found one, given my non-existent photographic skills and equipment.
     
  16. Jay GT4

    Jay GT4 Well-Known Member

    Here's the denarius from the series...
    Nerva_Concordia.jpg

    IMP NERVA CAES AVG PM TR P COS III P P
    Head of Nerva right

    CONCORDIA EXERCITVVM
    clasped right hands

    Rome January-September 97 A.D.

    3.51g

    Sear 3020, RIC 14, RSC 20

    Ex-Forum
     
  17. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    My only clasped hands coin is this Nerva denarius I bought not long ago:

    NEW Nerva clasped hands denarius.jpg
     
  18. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    I just disinherited Bing. My kids, natural or adopted, KNOW what I am without resorting to 'thinking'.
    My collection always has specialized in things that no one in their right mind would want. When I was a kid, a local butcher gave my mother flank steak because no one wanted that tough meat. Back then, they didn't just grind it since hamburger was supposed to be fatty. Later, someone started calling it 'London Broil' and we started eating more beans. I collected Septimius Severus because 'correct minded' collectors avoided things that late. I collected fourrees when they sold for a tiny fraction of solid coins. Whatever I collect, you can be sure that it will be despised by fashionable folks. I pity my remaining adoptees. Bing was a good fit but ruined it by thinking. :grumpy:
     
  19. Bing

    Bing Illegitimi non carborundum Supporter

    I've been told by my wife that I shouldn't think. It's not my strong suit!
    OIP.jpg
     
  20. ominus1

    ominus1 Well-Known Member

     
  21. ancient coin hunter

    ancient coin hunter 3rd Century Usurper

    Marius, AD 269.

    AE Antoninianus. 17Mm, 2.6g, 6h; Mainz or Trier, AD 269.

    Obv.: IMP C M AVR MARIVS AVG Radiate, draped and cuirassed bust right.

    Rev.: VICTORIA AVG Victory advancing right, holding wreath and palm frond.

    Reference: RIC 18.



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