Scary indian head cent. Fake or rare?

Just got this indian head in today and I am looking for opinions before it goes back to seller. First off the color is an oddly irradescant green rainbow with some underlying reds that were difficult to capture in the photos. The surface a sort of grainy, especially the reverse. There appears to be a misplaced digit? under the first one in the date. The reverse is heavily doubled and really grainy looking. The Weight is around 3.3-3.4 but my scale is kind of iffy. I'm not sure if maybe it was harshly cleaned and artificially toned, or totally fake. Ivan deal with cleaned/toned because it is an awesome looking coin, but I really hate to have to add another body to my pile of fakes I haven't returned to avoid being put back in general circulation. Thanks. Mike

 

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It has a very rough surface, yet it has AU like details? Suspicious.

I don't see an issue with color, but the surface surely was the first thing I noticed. Ship it back, better to be safe than sorry.

 

Looks as it was cleaned and re toned. With all that MD I think if it was a cast fake it's a darn good one.

 

A agree with xCoin, Eagles. Both the surfaces and color look bad to me. I wouldn't keep it.

Bruce

 

I think it real,heres one like your, heavy doubling on the motto, along with some die cracks to, not sure about toning

 

I am in the AU details camp. I believe it was corroded and cleaned. The explains the pockmarked areas on the coin as well as the bad coloring.

 

Just looks cleaned and re-toned. That grainy look you describe is the result of a later die state, struck when the dies were very worn and flowlined. You can see other indicators of the late die state, like the obverse crack through the tops of UNITED and the crack from the 1 in the date to the rim.

I would be curious to see someone attribute the coin, it should be easy with that many obvious die attribution points.

 

This is the same die used in the OP's coin, although this one is earlier than the OP's. Not sure about the reverse die so can't tell about the variety. It's 100% real, counterfeiters do not go through this much trouble...

 

That's ki

 

I think your right the surface is rough due to flow lines and doubling most likely due to heavy polishing. I didn't look too closely before what I thougt was a mpd under the one is some stuck on dirt or funk of some sort.

 

N

 

I think the coin is real but the color is questionable.

 

A little bit of what everyone says except fake. Late die stage (machine doubling/die crack, flow lines), cleaned and re-toned. Returning would depend on how this was described. If this is not what you paid for and it was not described properly, and you are not satisfied, etc.

 

Can't view this, not a member of Photo Bucket.

 

Honestly I paid 40 for it and it came with a 2009 Ngc lincoln bicentennial set. The kid didn't ship it for 18 days. It was listed as BU with a dull photo, which looking at all his feed back, most of the pictures are of similar poor quality. I think I'll keep it, mainly to avoid the hassle of dealing with returns. The only time I ever tired returning something was a nightmare.

 

i can't get the video to upload without using the photo bucket link

 

I have a 1905 IHC with the same doubling on ONE CENT. It's called Longacre Doubling (from what I read) It's the face of the letter punch making contact with the die.

 

I'd keep it as well, cool coin.

 

My initial impression is that the coin hasn't been whizzed, but it has been colored. I believe the extra outlines on the reverse to be from extreme die deterioration. You can see how the flow lines of the metal in the coin radiate from the center towards the edges. These sort of extra outlines caused by die deterioration will always 'flow' to the outside of the coin, that is why you don't see it inside the wreath. Similar extra outlines can exist on a whizzed coin, where the dremel tool literally shifts the metal. However, on those heavily whizzed coins the extra outlines will often exist on all sides of the raised devices.

Scroll to the bottom of this thread to see an example of die deterioration on the obverse, which I just posted today. https://www.cointalk.com/threads/1892-indian-head-penny-ddr.259725/#post-2091005

On the 1890 QDO, the die deteriorates just as the reverse of your coin there. See the date below. It looks a lot like a RPD, but it isn't.



People on eBay bid coins like yours way up, even if you say they are recolored or retoned in the description. At $40, you probably won't loose much if anything if you resell it on eBay. Coins like that, I sell them on eBay and use the $$$ to get honest examples. Check out this auction - if someone was willing to pay $40 for this unattractive coin, surely someone would bid yours up. http://www.ebay.com/itm/High-Grade-...60?pt=Coins_US_Individual&hash=item1e97643c04