Question about a gold coin on Pawn Stars

Hey, I have been meaning to post this for a while. Months ago, there was a guy on Pawn Stars that had a gold coin, and they did not know if it was real or counterfeit, but the pawn shop guy told him "Don't worry, even if it is counterfeit, if its still real gold, its still worth a lot of money.

Now this got me thinking, even though the coin was real gold, if it was a counterfeit, wouldn't the Feds have to confiscate it, by law? I mean, how could you legally sell a counterfeit U.S. coin that is still legal tender. That would be like printing your on fake bills or minting your own fake coins and using them, wouldn't it?

(Oh, and if it helps, I believe this was a $20 gold piece we are talking about, here.)

One more thing, I once read, many years ago, that it is legal for people to counterfeit pennies and nickels, but nothing higher. Is this true? (Not that I'd have any plans to counterfeit anything)

 

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Well, I don't believe a double eagle is considered legal tender anymore.

 

Double Eagles have not been demonetized and are most certainly still legal tender. It would be perfectly legal for someone to spend a Double Eagle as $20 (just like it is perfectly legal to spend a Morgan Dollar as $1 or a Walker Half for 50 cents). I would agree that it would be a bad move to spend a Double Eagle for $20 (because the value of the gold content is $1,586 today) but it would be perfectly legal to do so.

 

Things are not quite as cut and dried as that. As long as there is no deception, the counterfeit coin is not represented to be genuine and is not sold as a genuine coin it is OK to sell the coin (as a counterfeit).

 

VERY interesting, guys. I would never spend a Double Eagle as regular cash either...unless I was a really rich man, and just wanted to see someone's reactions.

By the way, since $2.50 coins were Quarter Eagles, $5 coins were Half Eagles, $10 coins were Single Eagles, and $20 coins were Double Eagles, what were $50 gold coins called? I'm pretty sure $50 gold coins existed, and, were there denomination gold coins that went even higher ($100, $500, etc.) that existed? If so, how high did U.S. gold coins go?

Oh, and, what about my question about counterfeiting pennies and nickels? Does anyone here know the answer?

 

I'm pretty sure the double eagle was the highest denomination regular issue gold coin. The $50 gold were private pieces.
Never heard of anything higher than a $50 gold. The US was not minting platinum bullion coins back then.

 

I know pawn stars had an episode where someone brought a rare coin but the mint mark was fake. So it wasn't counterfeit but just not from the right mint represented. Not sure if that was same as the episode you are talking about

 

Someone brought in a chuck on rock with a bunch of shipwreck gold coins and it was appraised for 500 grand and they only offered 100 grand.

 

Are these $50 gold coins the same as "orangebacks" (Gold Certificates with the orange backs that are paper gold notes that are illegal for private ownership)?

 

I have no idea and don't know anything about paper money or certificates.

 

The $10 was simply called an 'Eagle', not a 'Single Eagle'. The Eagle was the highest denomination coin until 1849 when the Double Eagle was authorized.

The US Mint has never struck $50 gold coins for circulation. Commemorative $50 gold coins (round and octagonal) were struck in 1915 for the Panama-Pacific Exposition. A $50 gold Pattern coin was struck in 1877. The 1877 $50 gold Pattern is known as a Half Union, which seems to imply that a $100 gold coin (if it existed) would be called a Union.

All this information is found in your Red Book.

 

along with tons of other necessary info which is why everybody should have one.

 

And one more important thing. Just owning a Red Book is not enough. You need to read it.

 

both

HA, HA, that's good, but it does have some hot pictures.

 

Well, Francis Henning got three years in prison for counterfeiting nickels back in the 1950's... of course five cents was worth a lot more back then:

http://www.numismaticenquirer.com/TNE/Henning%20Counterfeit%20Nickel.html

 

Uh, perhaps you forgot the 1915 Pan Pacific $50 gold pieces, the round and the octagonal - those are genuine United States Mint legal tender $50 gold pieces. Rare and expensive, and I sure wish my great great grandmother had bought one of those instead of the replica in bronze that resides in my SDB.

BTW no counterfeits are technically legal, to own, sell etc. The factor that is really at play is how much of a perceived threat by the Secret Service, FBI etc - if they appear to be inconsequential they will leave you alone as they have more important things to do. But if you are making and circulating coins like Henning did in the early 1950's you can bet they will be looking for you.

Yes, a genuine 1932 quarter with an added S mintmark.
​

 

I didn't think counterfeiting coins was actually illegal. Only if you represented them as authentic, then it was a crime. I mean, you can stamp out and sell fakes all day long if they have "copy" stamped on them. I don't think the feds care unless you represent them as real money.

 

I think his reference to the coin being worth money was in the bullion value, not the collector value of the coin. Some counterfeits were made using the same gold alloy used to strike the originals. As a side note they recently aired an episode where a guy brought in credentials and other items belonging to an ex-attorney general. One of the items was a counterfeit $10 bill, printed only on one side. The other side, blank, contained signatures from coworkers (memory is failing me as to specifics), the bill obviously given as memento of some investigation. Both Rick and his expert (the museum guy) stated owning that bill was illegal because it was counterfeit, though I couldn't see anyone try to pass this off as cash. Conflicting information from the show. Wonder who is correct.

 

I have firsthand experience in reality TV. Several years ago I was involved in a series that ran on USA network, did some movies, and recently a medical documentary. In regards to Pawn Stars there are several things you should know. One is that you can’t imagine how many items they can choose from too air. Not sure about pawn stars but years ago focus groups voted and decided for the shows which feature items or scenes should be shown. And prior to airing you can believe that every aspect of the featured item has been researched, Further, the stars already know the likely value, and so forth before the deal. The “I really want this item” is shot at some later time. In short, while the scenes may/may not be scripted the item time allotment/choice of item and historical information has all been pieced and edited and legal approved before airing. In simple form I view that show as –Interesting item-Value set-History noted.

 

Counterfeiting coins has been illegal since coins were first created in antiquity, no issuing authority with any sense tolerates counterfeiting. The US government is certainly no exception. Granted, there were far more prosecutions for such in the past - back then if you made a base metal half dollar ca. 1920 you could make a profit by counterfeiting. What has transpired though with our coins having no practical value now they are NOT counterfeited for circulation purposes in the USA because it is not economical. The only counterfeiting of USA coins now is for collectable era coins that are valued for their rarity - and made outside of USA jurisdiction in China. Have enough of those and you can bet you will be hearing from the FBI or Secret Service.

However it is known that the Sacagawea dollar coins are indeed being counterfeited in Colombia, presumably by the drug cartels there, and then they are sold at a discount into Ecuador, where USA dollar coins do circulate - practically the only place in the world where they do. And you can indeed believe the Secret Service is pursuing the forgers because they are also cranking out larger denomination US bills.