Please help with copper bullion

I'm new to bullion investing. I decided I would start trying to buy $30 to $75 a month in precious metals that I can keep at home. So far everything I have is silver, mostly Silver Eagles. But I have a few 1 oz bars also. I've been told the coins will be easier to sell/trade in the future. Not only that but I can buy nice PVC-free tubes to store the coins in for long term where I seem to have trouble finding anything to store bars in.

So.. One of the things I've been thinking I want to do is diversify a bit and buy copper too. Maybe alternate every month or spend half/half. Trouble is, buying copper seems to be a real trick compared to the well established knowledge of buying silver/gold.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears the US mint does not make any copper coins. Yet, I see on eBay people selling copper eagles that look just like the silver/gold versions. Are these fraudulent? I can buy a tube of 20 of them for about $30. Which, doesn't seem all that bad compared to other sellers who want to sell a 1-oz bar for about $5. But comparing to the actual spot values of copper, even $30 for 20 ounces seems sort of high. It also seems high compared to buying copper bars of similar weight.

But I keep coming back to the same dilemma. Everyone says silver coins are better than silver bars. But does the same hold true for copper? At least if I bought the 20 copper coins they do come in the same type tubes that silver eagles would come in. That would make them nice to stack and store, plus keep them from tarnishing over time. In an economic collapse, I would think the copper coins might be useful for small purchases, probably much more so than a bar.

I've also seen titanium and various other metals. I've even got a few bars of things like Niobium and what not.

But when it boils down to it. I don't like regular coin collecting because it is too difficult to determine a historic coin's value. I am mainly interested in long-term investment. It is a good way for me to divert some of my monthly budget to a savings that is not too easy to spend on a whim. So I don't care very much what is printed on the surface. I'm just interested in what will be good for long-term storage and resell, and potentially for trade in economic disaster. I also want to diversify. I don't want to put all of my money into silver and I can't afford any gold or platinum. So I want to make sure I buy something every month. So... please direct me to what is the best silver-alternatives to buy.

 

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the best way to invest in copper is to buy the stock scco

 

I just picked up 34 pounds of Canadian copper pennies from eBay. Got them for near spot value, and I feel like it's a good potential numismatic play because they are discontinuing the penny there. Plus they are 98% copper unlike the 95% US pennies.

I also like nickels because you can get them without any cost, just swap dollars in paper for dollars in nickels, and they have enough copper/nickel melt value that they are just barely above their face value right now. They can't ever be less than 5 cents in the current system, but someday they could be worth more just like silver is even though it used to circulate at face value.

However, for wealth preservation silver is really about the cheapest you can go without having to lug around a ton of weight. That's one reason why I like it so much. It's the most liquid of the precious metals.

I would suggest avoiding gemstones because you will lose close to 50% if you try to sell them back even right after you buy them, and if you cut them up they lose value too. Metals can be melted, cut, etc. and retain their value by weight.

What I have been doing lately is swapping out some of my 10 oz bars for silver dimes. That way I have smaller denominations. If you are really worried about economic collapse you might want to think about ammunition.

 

Copper is not bullion.

 

I bought a half pound of copper "Bullion" from Provident Metals.... they had a web ad on this blog... I think they still do. Anyway, I was interested in their "Ron Paul" 1oz round and got a few for me and a friend. While at it, I got some other copper "coins" that are remakes of famous coin designs. The copper content is certified and the bullion is round (coin like) and I found it fun to purchase and hold. With precious and semi-precious moving so much, I would differ with fatima and say it has a market, has certified content and Is BULLION. As such, "Provident Metals" sells it as copper bullion in many different shapes and sizes.

 

The cheapest way to build a position in copper is with US cents made before 1982.

 

I had a thread like this awhile back. What it basically boils down to is that pre-82 pennies are the way to go. The rounds/bars have a rediculous premium attached to them.

Stick with silver and keep building your hoard.

 

Try and find an independent definition of Bullion which include copper, steel, etc. It isn't considered bullion, Many states have tax exception for bullion over a certain amount, try to buy that much copper ( such as copper pipes with a certified content) and not pay taxes. You and others can call it bullion, but it is not, it is a commodity.

Most "bullion" dealers would sell bananas as "bullion" if it would pay the same premium as copper rounds. IMO.

Jim

 

I agree with aandabooks and pennypanner, however isn't it pre-1983 pennies?

From what I have read, if you are investing in copper and silver in preparation for the collapse of the dollar (and our economy), U.S. copper and silver coins are the way to go because they are the most recognizable and readily accepted here in the U.S. I was buying quite a bit of Mexican silver until I realized that if I needed to trade it for food or necessities in the future, I may not get the full value of the silver content since not everyone was educated on silver content, etc. I doubt anyone at a corner market would know how much silver was in a 1968 Mexico Olympics 25 peso coin!

Just my "two cents"

 

Some 1982 pennies are copper and some aren't. If you not a more experienced identifyer by color or sound, just weigh them. Around 3.2g is copper and around 2.6 is zinc.

 

If you're doing this for investments, I'd say don't bother with copper. Your return investment might be able to buy (not promising you anything though) your last pack of cigarettes to smoke before you die. :yes:

 

The only people i ever hear use the words "copper" and "Bullion" together are people trying to sell those ugly copper rounds and bars that sell for something like 25x the actual metal value..

 

If you think the future might look that bad i would be investing in other things besides a shiny piece of metal. If three people are trading supply's, one as a good Cow for trade, one has a good rifle for trade and the third as a bag of shiny metal, Who do you think is not going to make a deal that day?

 

I like bananas

 

if you really feel like you want some copper, go get some penny rolls......find the copper pennies and save them.....it is free and you can stash them away in case of the end of the world or more likely when the u.s. eventually gets rid of the pennies and someone wants to melt them down.......but unless you plan on saving thousands of dollars worth (which takes a while to get) it is not going to get you very much in my opinion......

 

Actually, the guy with the rifle may well take the gold and the cow.

​

 

That is the more likely scenario.

 

Actually, I've tried gun collecting. At one point I thought that was the way to go. So I bought some old WW-II era pistols as investments. The problem I discovered was two fold. First problem was that I had to become an expert in what I was buying in order to know what was a good deal. Second thing is that a good collectible gun will cost $1,000 or more and I usually don't have that kind of money laying around. That is why I switched to silver. I can buy a few silver eagles each month without breaking the bank. Plus, no research is required other than the knowledge of what an ounce of silver is valued at.

My main reason for wanting copper is simply that i wanted to diversify a bit and I can't afford any gold or platinum. However, after spending the last few days researching this quite a bit I've come to an understanding. Here's what I've found:

Copper coins seem to be way overpriced, no matter where I look. Some places are worse than others. However, in the short term they aren't a bad investment because the resale value of the coins seems pretty stable. For example, I could buy a few thousand coins on ebay if I lowballed a whole bunch of auctions until I got them at a good deal. Then I could turn around and sell them off small portions at a time and get my money back and maybe then some. However, I'm worried that if copper really does become a good investment medium then the price of these coins will eventually be more like silver where the coins are valued based on the metal content.. In which case these coins selling for $2.00 a piece will drop to $0.25 a piece. Or, if people realize copper is a bad investment, the coins will still lose value. So I'm convinced the coins are a waste of money for the long-term.

Copper Bullion Bars seem like a better deal. If bought in huge bars and large enough quantity I've been able to locate deals that are just marginally above spot value. But you have to be prepared to buy thousands of dollars worth of the stuff. In the long term, it would probably be a good investment.

So that seems to be the crappy thing about copper. The whole idea for me is I wanted something I could buy maybe $50 a month. The trouble is, unless I'm prepared to chunk down several thousand dollars, I can't buy it cheap enough to be worth it.

That being the case... I guess I'm going to stick with Silver Eagles and silver bullion bars for the time being.

 

Reminds me of Steve Martin's advice. Buy cardboard!

 

Or you can buy boxes of pennies and sort out the copper. You now have one cent invested in each copper penny. If anything happens and you can't sell your pennies at a profit you can still spend them at face value. The only thing you've lost is a little time. I search pennies while watching television with the wife. At one point I was selling copper pennies for two cents each and buying silver and gold with the profits.