New Raymond Roupen

I wound up with this last night, attributed to Baldwin III.


Frankish Levant. Principality of Antioch. Raymond Roupen, 'pretender' to Antioch, 1216-1219. AR denier.
Obv. Helmeted profile, in chain mail. +:R:V: P:I:N:V:S:
Rev. +AMTIOCIIIA (Blundered rendering of 'ANTIOCHIA,' as in 12th-century issues of Baldwin III.) Malloy, Antioch (/pp. 223-4): 95a.
This complemented one I'd already posted, this time with Malloy's principal obverse variant, as noted under 95a.


For comparison, there's this one, of Bohemond IV's first reign (1201-1216), which Raymond Roupen so rudely interrupted. ...The legends and motifs represent a seamless continuation of the 12th-century issues of Bohemond III.
Malloy 78a, citing Metcalf Class J.
...Where the Crusades are concerned, the earlier 13th century is my favorite part of the whole, otherwise sordid enterprise. By this time, what was left of the Frankish polity had an established tradition of adaptation, notably on the levels of diplomacy and trade. Before too long, Friedrich II of the German empire would capitalize on some of the underlying cultural dynamics which made this even fleetingly possible. With maternal descent from Norman Sicily --not unlike the Bohemonds of Antioch, from the origin of the principality-- Friedrich 'liberated' Jerusalem for the only time since 1100 CE, by means of irect negotation, in Arabic.
...So of course I needed this.

Frankish Levant. AR dirham, imitating issues of Al-Zahir Ghazi, Ayyubid at Aleppo, AH 614 /1217 CE.
Album (2nd ed., 1998) 836; Balog 629; Malloy p. 133, no. 1.
...I wish I had access to Metcalf for this, beyond a few xeroxes. But one great beauty of this issue is that, apart from stylistic variation, the only distinguishing feature of either the legends or the motifs is that the Frankish series continues the AH dates past Al-Zahir Ghzi's death. ..Evoking Norman Sicilian coins of the preceding century, with correspondingly accurate AH dates.
Kinda cool.
Post anything relating to unexpected levels of cultural interchange. ...Since, in the Ancient world, that's almost the default mode, medieval (whether CE or AD) would be only more fun.

 

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Thanks for that, @AussieCollector. I think what I find so compelling about the whole period, but especially the earlier 13th century, is how some of the cultural dynamics on the ground were so dramatically distinct from what Lord Bert and Lady Ethel back in Europe thought was going on. A little like the tragedy of so much of American history, during which some of the most oppressed segments of society made such profound contributions to the evolving cultural landscape.

 

Very interesting coins and information. This is an area I hope someday to get more involved in.

A couple years ago I got a silver dirham that I think might be a Crusader imitative - but I really had a tough time getting that far with it, and I may well be wrong.



Ayyubid Dynasty AR Dirham
al-Nasir Salah al Din Yusuf
(Saladin) (Crusader imitation?)
AH 564-589 /1169-1193 A.D
Dimashq (Damascus) mint
Name al-Nasir Salah al-Din v Dunya inside square / name and titles of Caliph al-Nasir inside a square (?)
(2.72 grams / 19 mm)
Uncertain Attribution

 

Many thanks, @Marsyas Mike. This was sure educational for me!!! I don't have any coins of Saladin (...yet --but it's been a long 'yet'), and had no idea that Frankish imitations began as early as this. But sure enough, Album (2nd ed., 1998) notes of this precise issue, "struck at Hims & Hamah in addition to Dimashq [and naming caliph al-Nasir]," that "some crude examples are possibly Crusader imitations." (787.2; cf. 787.1.) Malloy (1994) makes no mention of them, starting the series from the early 13th c. CE. Kinda gives you a feel for the state of the research! It would be great to see what Malloy had to say about this.

 

Nice catch @+VGO.DVCKS! A Raymond is still on my want list.

 

Roupen's coinage gives a glimpse into how busy the minting at Antioch was, since his varieties were all the result of ca. 3 years of minting. A good resource for his denarii is M. Philips - The Roupen Hoard of Helmet Pennies of Antioch, The Numismatic Chronicle Vl. 165 (2005), pp. 249-276

 

@seth77, Nice ones! --No, Really! One of my Jean de Briennes is just like that lower one.
And Massive thanks for the Numismatic Chronicle article ...pretty sure those are online.

 

Bottom one is the RVPIIVS variation Roupen Hoard 366 p. 269

 

...Drat. The NC is only archived on Jstor, and only the earliest numbers are available free. For journals, I'm stuck with whatever's randomly available online.
...Would you recommend a membership? (...And, Yes, what does it Cost? ...Unless you're a practicing academic, instead of a frustrated one, like me.)
...More impressionistically, the stylistic decline following the issues of Bohemond III is both broad and pronounced. As you imply, this could be largely due to the accelerated scale of mintages.
...Although, of course, for extant examples, Bohemond III's are easily the commonest. Not having seen the article, it's a commensurately easy guess that a lot of the Roupenid ones were melted down with Bohemond IV's reaccession.
(Fun detail, for those tuning in late: Raymond Roupen was the maternal great-nephew of Levon /Leo I (first Roupenid king of Armenia, (1198/) 1199-1219), of numismatic fame, thanks to his AR trams. --Which, while incorporating numerous Frankish elements in the motifs, follow the general module of contemporary Ayyubid dirhams. Evoking, in turn, the Frankish Levantine imitations of the Ayyubids. Along with Venetian grossos, issued from the beginning of the 13th century.
(...Raymond was also a paternal grandson of Bohemond III, and a nephew of Bohemond IV, whose reign he temporarily usurped.)

 

@Marsyas Mike : Your coin is from a different Salah al-Din : al-Nasir II Salah al-Din Yusuf (1250-60AD). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Nasir_Yusuf

 

Thank you so much for this information - I really struggle with these Islamic coins and I need all the help I can get!

 

Those are some great coins @+VGO.DVCKS @seth77 and @Marsyas Mike I've always loved the helmet deniers of Antioch, though was unfamiliar with Raymond Roupen. My knowledge of the Crusader States needs some improvement.
It wasnt until December that I finally picked up a denier of Bohemund III, I couldn't say no to the bust of the knight.

In regards to the article by Philips "The Roupen Hoard of Helmet Pennies of Antioch" I have a JSTOR account from work and can print and download articles. If you would like +VGO.DVCKS I can send it your way as either a digital or paper (my own not work resources) format.

 

Hey Edwin, the profile on your example is The Stuff!
...And, Yep, Massive thanks for your very kind offer, regarding the Philips article!
...I have a lot of the first volume of Duplessy (right, Monnaies feodales Francaises) in .pdf, saved on a thumb drive (...in case my rapidly aging desktop has a major 'neural episode'). Sent by a friend, before I wound up with a hard copy, it runs to the northern- and central- western parts of the country, which was where I started collecting. (For obvious reasons, by way of bouncing directly off of English hammered.) ...By way of returning the favor, it would be an honor to send you some or all of it.