I'm looking to invest (real long term) in some nice Walking Libertys.. I'm debating if I should get ms64s, or pay double for ms65s? As for long term market trends, which is a better investment? I do like the fact I can have twice as many coins if I go with 64s... appreciate any input!
Buy the coins that give you the most enjoyment and satisfaction. Invest in real estate or Las Vegas casinos! Chris
i agree with cpm. rare coins are difficult to make money in. i suggest buying american gold eagles and silver eagles for an investment. then as the years go by, use profits from bullion to buy a few rare coins that you enjoy. i've been collecting coins since 1968 and i've lost about 10% to 20% over the years in rare coins I've bought. meanwhile i've made huge gains in bullion. that's been my experience at least. you should only buy a rare coin to enjoy and not with the idea of making a profit.
I see NO indication of coins being a good investment. History shows coins have trouble even keeping up with inflation. I bought a 1893-S Morgan (PCGS G-6) in the 70's for $750. It's worth a lot more now BUT taking into account inflation I breaking about even. EXCEPTION: 6-figure and higher coins (and some 5-figure coins).
I would not invest in collector coins (except for maybe some high value key dates). With that said, I think all coin collectors have their own individual/personal reasons for collect, but most have an eye on future value. Who wants to collect an depreciating asset? It is better to invest your money elsewhere and use your discretionary funds for collecting what makes you happy. Regarding the Walkers, I would learn to grade the series and then seek out those slabbed MS64 that could potentially grade MS65. TC
They already touched on coins as an investment which I agree with. And topcat touched on learning to grade the series first. So can you tell a 64 from a 65? Maybe you should buy a couple of CAC graded 64's and 65's to use as guides. That might help you identify the choice 64's and 65's. In the long run it might help, but you still need to learn to grade yourself. I think if you can afford 65's, then go with 65's - but not as an investment. And you still need to learn what to look for in a 65 or even a 64.
You should pay attention to post #2 ! Interesting but invalid logic. If you like having more coins you can buy a $1000 bag of Walkers for not much over melt and have 2000 coins if having more coins is your goal. But something tells me you'll not pay attention to either of those ideas. Given that, the coins you should be looking at will be graded MS66 and MS67 - not 64 or 65.
does this site not have word wrap or something? anyway i see your points. I don't think i'd pay 5x melt or 10x melt for a 66 or better.. i'm just gonna buy a few of the old ones and spend the rest on bullion. So you guys don't think 50 years from now walking liberties will be worth a whole lot more than they are now?
First of all, I won't be around in 50 years to worry about it. I'm sure they probably will increase little by little, but the big question remains, "Will those increases keep up with inflation?" Chris
Usually when someone says "long term investment", they mean "something that makes money and I don't have to pay attention to it" which usually means long term losses. If you want to invest in WL, research which have gain the most recently, and very high grade ones like Doug mention are there, but you must be willing to learn to grade them, watch the market and get in before another rise in high grade WL and get out when you see the downward coming. Same for bullion. A person who buys ( no matter if they feel in their gut something will increase ) without deep research and continuing observation and research, is not an investor, they are a collector or an accumulator. Yes sometime money can be made that way, but it is at the whim of the market time and chaotic factors. People who are collectors should trust their investments with professionals if they are not willing to spend the time researching, whether it is WL or talcum powder from China. IMO. Jim
Well let's see, the '64 Kennedy half is well over 50 years old and an MS64 example would probably cost you about melt value. If that's not old enough you can get some Morgans from the 1880's in 64 grade for not much over melt. You see, the amount of time you own a coin and the age of a coin, and in some cases even the grade of the coin have little to nothing to do with the value of that coin.
If you can tell me where I can buy 1880's MS-64 Morgans for little over $30, I would be appreciative.
Adding to much of the good advice already given here, I'd like to add that any long term investment should be routinely managed, and the investor should be knowledgable of what he/she is investing in. A collector like me keeps the coins they have added to their collection, even if the market has taken a huge tumble, and your collection is worth only a fraction of the purchase price. Investors should keep an eye on market trends, and sell when the market is about to tank. Long term investments in coins (other than extremely high grade rarities or famous rarities such as the 1913 V-nickel), are not high yield like many other investments.
You can buy '79, '80, '81-S Morgans in 64 pretty much any time you want for $40-$50. To me, that is not much over melt.
MS-64 or MS-65 1879-O+1880-O $45.00 :kewl: .Ngc Pcgs or Anacs I would be very tempted buy as many as you find MS-64 or MS-65 for $50.00 4 sure:thumb:
I agree that coins in general are a pretty poor investment, esp. if the buyer doesn't know much about coins. You'll likely not profit unless you got lucky and started collecting common silver when it was cheap, but that is the same as bullion. I recall a 1913 V-nickel being perhaps 200k when I was kid circa 1975. I'll guess it is about 3 million now ( I don't track such a unique item), pretty nice return , but the exception not the rule, rolls of circ Indian cents would not have increased by 15X or bags of wheat cents, or most other stuff, certainly not bicentennial quarters, halves, common Ike's, $2 bills, etc. The guy that said buy the" sliders" is right ! Not the AU/BU slider of yesteryear, the 64/65 slider. The problem is anything worthy of the slide has been graded many times already via Crackers ( not too be confused with Honkies), so everything already in a good ( PCGS or NGC) slab has achieved its' highest rating already. That borderline 65 in a 64 holder doesn't really exist anymore....that's why you buy the coin not the holder....and don't mess with this stuff if you don't know it well ( investor type). A slabbed coin is not a stock, and the slab can also be counterfeit ! I agree with the other Doug, about the very top end Walkers being the best investment, the PCGS MS-67 type of stuff even if it is a common 1944, great type coin. I sort of see a bleak future for real collector coins, say stuff like a complete date set ( in VF/EF) of Indian cents, Lincolns, Large cents, Buff nicks, Merc dimes, SLQ's, WLH's, Peace dollars, etc. I don't think these staple items will keep pace with inflation in 50 years time. I doubt anything you buy from the mint will keep up either. In the far future ( maybe not so far) coins and cash will be long gone, our evil gov't wants to get rid of cash, thus the largest bill now is worth little more than a tank of gas in your truck/car, filling stations don't even blink at a $100 bill....which is like a $20 bill in say 1973. Why no $500 bill today ? Good luck with coins as an investment vehicle....you better become an expert ( or at least know your stuff well) before trying this . You will surely lose if you buy slabs , like they were stocks ! Sorry to so verbose !
I think "the other Doug" shorted it a tad, I'd say a slabbed ( PCGS or NGC, **** Anacs or any other grader) morgan at 64 is a nice coin, the submitter wanted a 65 or better grade, missed and got a 64, the 64 could be kind of a 64+. Should be a reasonable "investment" at $50 ( IMO)
I have noticed this as well, the MS62 morgans sell for even closer to melt. Honestly If I were buying just for bullion I'd be buying the graded ones anyway, such a minor premium to know what you are getting is genuine, uncleaned, and for the most part in great shape. Saw a nice walker MS63 at a coin show today for $35, even the ebay ones sell for 40-45 but I turned it down anyway. I think I'm going to look for an MS65 for a steal of a deal (around $100ish) if I can find one. The strange thing to me is that the morgans have twice as much silver, but yet are not twice as expensive? Seems like walkers have a much larger (comparative premium) over melt value.
One of the reasons for the price difference between BU Morgans and BU Walkers is that a huge number of Morgans slept in the treasury vault for half century or more until the 1960s when silver was being proposed withdrawn from coins, the holding went from almost 200,000,000 BU silver dollars in 1960 to less than 30,000,000 in 1964 as people exchanged for them( mainly coin dealers and collectors/investors. Also almost 2 million carson city uncirculated were sold by GSA in the 1970s. There has never been such an event for Walkers, so BU were those saved early on, or various small hoards found later. There are vaious article and posts on these GSA sales, and even today, some of these are still sold "unopened" for a nice premium. Jim
