Mint state ancient bronze and copper coins!

It’s not hard to see mint state ancient gold coins or even silver coins, but I’ve never seen a bronze or a copper coin glistening with the original golden-yellow or reddish-brown colour due to them always forming the hard dark patina.
Just imagine how bright and lustrous the newly struck sestertius and follis would’ve looked?!
If anyone can post what I’m describing that’d be really great!

 

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You never will unless its been stripped of its patina. Gold is least reactive, silver a little more reactive, copper MUCH more reactive. Even sitting protected in a pot for 2000 years will create toning on the coin. I have seen pictures of huge amphora of roman bronzes put away basically the day they were struck. It was from a find building a road in Spain. These coins had the BEST chance ever of being BU if any did. Huge pot, (meaning little oxygen per coin), well protected, in a dry climate. Guess what? 100% toned. Those pics told me an untoned ancient copper CANNOT HAPPEN.

 

All ancient have been cleaned.. this has been stripped clean but is starting to get a bit of toning back. I enjoy the details of this coin and like it as is.


Constantius I Chlorus, as Caesar
Reign: As Caesar, A.D. 293-305.
Denomination: Æ Follis. Diameter: 29 mm.
Weight: 9.34 grams. Mint: Cyzicus, c. A.D. 297-299.
Obverse: Laureate head right.
Reverse: Genius standing left, holding patera and cornucopia.
Reference: RIC 11a.

 

This was recently mentioned on a Facebook group and is by far the most pristine base metal ancient I've ever seen. Someone supposed it had been buried in clay where oxygen couldn't tone the surfaces. Insane.

 

That's an incredible Titus! I wonder if it really was sealed off, or it's been very carefully doctored since coming out of the ground?

From my own collection, I have this one

I assume the patina was partially or mostly stripped away via electrolysis - it has a grainy surface but is a nice attractive red-brown in hand.

This is what ancient bronze is supposed to look like after spending over 1500 years in underground conditions

 

I'm about 99.5% sure it's original. Looks original and it brought somewhere around 150k CHF I think at NAC. And I think NAC knows their stuff.

 

This coin of Constantine is virtually mint state but is still patinated...

 

I can’t remember where I got this - it has been so long ago - I think I bought it along with some other very nice condition reduced folles from the Killingholme hoard - but I was struck by its pristine condition, even the wrinkles in the brow are clearly discernible. I no longer own this coin.

RIC VII, London, Licinius, No. 3

• Reduced weight follis - 313 to 314
• O: Licinius laureate and cuirassed bust right - IMP LICINIVS PF AVG
• R: Genius with modius on head, chlamys over left shoulder, holding patera (rh) cornucopia (l) GENIO POP ROM - PLN (exergue) S (l) F (r)
• Original silvering.

 

This is interesting. How is it that we don’t get lots of these? It’s not as if clay soil is scarce. It’s a pity the original NAC listing from 2013 doesn’t seem to be online.

 

You can find the NAC listing here. It doesn't discuss as much about the possible find conditions or cleaning of the coin as the post above, other than to say that it is magnificent and "virtually as struck". I suspect the coin was cleaned but that the cleaning revealed these excellent surfaces underneath. I've seen plenty of coins with small areas where patina removal revealed excellent surfaces, you just rarely see an entire coin like this, but I don't see why it wouldn't be possible.

 

Probably the closest I have to uncirculated:

This is also very nice with minimal wear:


And an example of a coin that retains most of its original silver wash (over bronze undercoin) with very little circulation wear:

 

That Titus is a beauty (to put it very mildly), I'm very sure I've never seen that much lustre on a bronze before.

I acquired this rather lovely Trajan sestertius a couple of years ago. What exactly happened to this after it was deposited, I'm not qualified to comment on -- it doesn't have the smooth gold-brown transitions one associates with "river patina", and it's noticeably pitted, so possibly this is just an unusually fortuitous over-cleaning. Very pleasant, regardless.


Trajan, 103-111AD: O: laureate head right, drapery on far shoulder, IMP CAES NERVAE TRAIANO AVG GER DAC P M TR P COS V P P / R: Annona standing left holding wheat and cornucopia, modius to left, prow of ship to right, SPQR OPTIMO PRINCIPI, S-C between. Seller's photo.

 

There were several “almost mint state” coins in that group of coins that I purchased - attached here is a Fausta reduced follis. I do not know why the patination differs between obverse and reverse - maybe as a result of contact with different substrates over a long period of time?

RIC VII, London, Fausta, No. 300k

• Killingholme Hoard (Trier Mint) - 324 to 325
• O: Fausta bust right - FLAV MAX FAVSTA AVG
• R: Fausta holding two infant sons - SALVS REIPVBLICAE

 

It seems to me that, in order to have a perfectly preserved ancient bronze coin, with completely untoned surfaces and a bright bronze color, the coin would have to be sealed hermetically in a container with a perfect vacuum just after minting. I don't think that technology existed back then.

The coins posted in this thread represent some of the best in terms of preservation.

 

I mean see how quickly that modern American bronze Indian cents and early Lincoln cents tone! 50 years and they’re all mostly brown despite being sealed in tubes, rolls, or slabs.

 

Yep - I think they have all been cleaned - no matter who claims otherwise.

Also photos do not always show the truth. Take this sellers photo and compare to the coin in hand:



I love the coin and prefer it in hand.. but there is a real difference..

 

Patina, toning, deposits, etc. are what make ancient coins so appealing, giving each coin it own character. If a coin is over 1,000 years old, or even younger, it should look its age.

Many factors contribute to a coin's condition, whether it is bronze, silver or gold, such as circulation, storage, environment and handling. These and other factors ultimately determine the coin's condition today.

This helps explain why it is very challenging to find minor coinage in even decent condition. As the means to carry out day-to-day transactions, the attrition rate makes high grade examples often times very difficult.

I know this is out of the scope of ancient coins, but here is a ducaton from Milan of Philip IV of Spain, recently purchased. This coin has probably been cleaned, but it has been clearly well cared for over the centuries, probably because coins such as these, and much of the ancient silver and gold coinage, saw limited circulation and often hoarded.

31.7 grams

 

I've posted these coins before but will gladly post them again as long as you asked for some mint state folles .

 

Those are lovely. It's really hard to find those coins with original silvering! AMazing. I'm drooling. I only have the one Constantine campgate with silvering, but it pales in compariosn.