Mercury dimes and Fascism

I was wondering why they continued to mint the Mercury dime when the US were at war with the Nazis. The fasces are very similar to those used on facist Italian coins, and surely it was not a piece of symbolism which would have been encouraging, as it now stood for everything that democracy was against ! Any other coins minted in the 2nd world war era by the Allies with such symbolism ?

J.

 

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Going out on a limb here but the Jefferson Nickel was struck with the mink marks prominently over Thomas Jefferson's home Monticello.

The letters D, P, and S could be (by the conspiracy nut) considered references to the German WWII concentration camps at Dachau, Sachsenhausen, and Plaszow.

Granted it's a stretch, but...

Ben

 

...but America wasn't fascist - then or now - any more than the UK, France, Canada, or Australia was or is fascist.

Yes, Italy took a wrong turn. But their decisions were their own, and in no way should force America (or anyone else) to change pre-existing coin designs (or anything else).

Here's what I found on dictionary.com...

fasces (n) : a bundle of rods containing an ax with the blade projecting, borne before Roman magistrates as an emblem of official power.

 

There are a number of answers

1. We put the fasces on our dime in 1916, and Italy adopted the symbol in 1919. Therefore, we were not in any way adopting symbols from the fascist Italian state, but rather they from us. We got there first, and I don't think that we were about to back down just because some piddly dictator stole some of our imagery. This relates to (3) below.

2. Our fasces is wrapped in an olive branch, a symbol of peace. In contrast, the fascist regimes in Europe were aggressive war starters.

3. America was not run by edited back then. We didn't kowtow to the PC Patrol like we do now.

 

Jerome:
That was just silly.
read any and all of the above.
By the way, did you know that the initials on the Roosevelt dime (JS) stand for Joseph Stalin?

 

1 thats a terrible conspiracy since as we know p= philedelphia d= denver s= san fransisco
2 the us isnt nazi

 

...and that the Georgia quarter is really for Soviet Georgia, where Stalin was born ?

 

Here is a little list that took me a few moments to compile LOL

The fasces in the United States of America

In the Oval Office, above the door leading to the exterior walkway, and above the corresponding door on the opposite wall, which leads to the White House Chief of Staff's office.

the regimental crest of the U.S. 71st Infantry Regiment of the New York National Guard consisted of a gold fasces set on a blue background.

The reverse of the United States "Mercury" dime (minted from 1916 to 1945) bears the design of a fasces and an olive branch.

Two fasces appear on either side of the flag of the United States in the United States House of Representatives, representing the power of the House and the country.

The Mace of the United States House of Representatives, designed to resemble fasces, consists of thirteen ebony rods bound together in the same fashion as the fasces, topped by a silver eagle on a globe.

The official seal of the United States Senate has as one component a pair of crossed fasces.

Fasces ring the base of the Statue of Freedom atop the United States Capitol building.

A frieze on the facade of the Supreme Court building depicts the figure of a Roman Centurion holding a fasces, to represent "order"

At the Lincoln Memorial, Lincoln's seat of state bears the fasces on the fronts of its arms, Fasces also appear on the pylons flanking the main staircase leading into the memorial.

Four fasces flank the two bronze plaques on either side of the bust of Lincoln memorializing his Gettysburg Address at Gettysburg, Pennsylvania.

The fasces appears on the state seal of Colorado, USA, beneath the "All-seeing eye" (or Eye of Providence) and above the mountains and mines.

On the seal of the New York City borough of Brooklyn, a figure carries a fasces; the seal appears on the borough flag.

Used as part of the Knights of Columbus emblem (designed in 1883).

Many local police departments use the fasces as part of their badges and other symbols. For instance, the top border of the Los Angeles Police Department badge features a fasces. (1940)

Fascese elsewhere

On the front cover of French passports and as part of the French National Emblem

Coat of Arms of the Spanish Guardia Civil

Norwegian & Swedish Police forces have double fasces in their logos

The Gold mining community in Victoria Australia had it on there flag

Canton of St Gallen has it as a coat of arms, as does Norte de Santander, a department of Colombia

The coat of arms of the city of Cucuta in Colombia

It appears on flags from Ecuador & Switzerland

A coin of Postumius Albinus c81 Bc

And yes it appered on Facist regalia not only in Italy but also in Britain but it was a symbol of Anciant Rome that Mussolini decided would do to show the power of his new rome to the world

 

Jest, Jest, Jest... Simply posted in jest.

 

I think I'm going to have to quote that on my website!! Do you have any problem with that
Something like that just must be true

Speedy

 

Speedy, it's all yours...

Take Care
Ben

 

FWIW, I'm missing the humor here.

Ruben

 

I don't think there really is a lot of humor here Ruben.

What there is IMHO though is a lot of statements geared toward our "Politically Correct" society.

There are things that shouldn't be said, however freedom of speech allows people to say them no matter how sick they may be to 99% of the population.

A coworker told me today that McDonalds no longer "supersizes" a meal because "overweight" people found it offensive. Give me a break. I could stand to lose a few pounds but don't go crying about it.

I have nerve damage in my eyes should I take offense the next time I'm at a baseball game and someone shouts "what are you blind ump!?"

I have a pretty good idea where you're coming from however but please don't read too much into it.

 

It is purely ancient roman of course.

the Latin word fascis, meaning "bundle" symbolise summary power and jurisdiction, and/or "strength through unity."

The traditional Roman fasces consisted of a bundle of birch rods tied together with a red ribbon as a cylinder.

The symbolism of the fasces at one level suggested strength through unity. The bundle of rods bound together symbolizes the strength which a single rod lacks. The axe symbolized the state's power and authority. The rods symbolized the state's obligation to exercise restraint in the exercising of that power. The highest magistrates would have their lictors unbind the fasces they carried as a warning if approaching the limits of restraint.

http://www.livius.org/fa-fn/fasces/fasces.html

 

don't let the symbols used by governments pull your emotional strings - they are simply shapes on a piece of metal or cloth and have no attributes beyond what someone applies to them individually. that the Italian government used a symbol that was in use by other nations shows that the symbol was popular at the time. nothing more.

-Steve

 

do you mean that it isn't?

 

Well, the Mercury dimes were full of symbolism, none of which was a reference to fascism, obviously. The strong faggot appears on the reverse as a symbol of strength, and the battle ax as a symbol of military strength, and the olive branch as a symbol of peace.

How about this for a conspiracy?

The Mercury dime was first minted in 1916, and Liberty wore a helmet. Anyone know who else wore a helmet... KAISER WILHEM!!!!!!!!

 

The Mercury dime is not the only US coin that the fasces is on. There's also the 1936 commemorative half dollar for the 75th anniversary of The Battle of Gettysburg. The fasces is on the reverse of the half and it shows a Union and Confederate shield joined by a double edged fasces. (mintage 26,000)

Lou

 

" The influence of Roosevelt on the nation’s coinage was felt again in 1916 with the redesign of the dime, quarter, and half dollar. Adolph Weinman designed the dime and half dollar, while Hermon MacNeil created the quarter; both artists studied under Saint-Gaudens earlier in the century. These issues are unique in American numismatic history, as they are the only pieces with an official statement regarding their symbolism. Of the half dollar, the Director of the Mint Report of 1916 states that the Liberty on the obverse is “Progressing in full stride toward the dawn of a new day, carrying branches of laurel and oak, symbolic of civil and military glory” (Mint 1916) It also states that the enigmatic pine sapling on the reverse is symbolic of America. Of the Standing Liberty quarter pattern, it notes that Liberty is “stepping forward to the gateway of the country” and that the “the left arm of the figure of Liberty is upraised, bearing the shield in an attitude of protection, from which the covering is being drawn” (Mint 1916). Lastly, it says of the dime that the fasces on the reverse is “symbolic of Unity, wherein lies the nations strength” (Mint 1916)

It is well that the Mint Report elaborated on the symbolism of the coins, for never before have coin designs been so closely tied to the political situation of the day. In 1916, The First World War was raging in Europe and the United States was desperately struggling to avoid it. As such, the tremendous amount of militaristic references on the coins may be disturbing: fasces or newly raised and revealed shields. However, coins are also replete with the olive branch of peace. In the case of the dime, the olive branch actually entwines around the fasces, creating a curious juxtaposition of the two opposing themes. "


That paper I wrote comes in more and more handy every day! However, the original question was not what the symbolism meant. The question was why it wasn't changed when the symbol became associated with something else. Well, it was. in 1946, the design of the dime changed! Probably, no one thought to change it during the war. Or, perhaps they did - you all know how slowly the wheels of bureaucracy turn!