Can someone explain to me what exactly coin luster means? I have some new coins, eagles, commemoratives, etc. where I think I can identify what luster is. My confusion cames when I see some photos where people say they can see luster in older coins. Help!
Luster is flowlines in the coins surface caused by the metal flowing out as the coin is pressed. They will radiate out from the center. It vivs the coin kind of a silky sheen. There are a lot of older coins with luster but it is fragile and will wear off fairly quick in circulation.
Good. I'll just add, even when a mint-state coin is heavily-tarnished, you can see hints of that center-to-rim reflection on that surface.
Here are a couple of pics of coins with the luster worn off to diferent degrees. You can see the lighter satiny luster and the duller areas of wear.
Good point. This shows the difference between color and luster. They are very different. Color is overt and obvious. Luster can be very subtle. For instance, I have an 1816 Large 1c MS61 RB. It has some original color (mint red), but mostly brown tone. While it has lost most of its original color, it still has the original luster. Tons of cartwheel ! You can see the wheel beneath the brown.
Good point. Yes, it fades quickly in circulation. But even worse in a cleaning. Luster is the first thing to go in a bad cleaning. Dull, flat luster is a clear indicator a coin has been cleaned or over-dipped. Some older XF45 coins can have nice luster.
Great thread. IMHO, the TPGs don't give enough weight to luster. I've seen coins grade 64 and 65, which were very nice except they have mediocre luster. For this reason, luster has become a major key point for me when shopping AU50 and above. It's a major factor which leads me to choose one coin over another. Be choosy ! Be picky ! Insist on luster ! Be a hold out !
Check this suckah out ... http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1121&Lot_No=274 Oh my goodness gracious. That, my friend... that is luster. All brown. No original mint red. But awesome original mint luster. What makes a coin scream at you from across the room ? Luster. That's what booms - unlike micro-detail, which must be closely examined to be appreciated. When you're just walkin' down the bourse aisle, mindin' your own bizness and some coin screams out "LOOK AT ME !!!!" That's luster.
Let's compare some older coins. Let's try 1837 Large Cents... Great Luster http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1121&Lot_No=274 http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1122&LotIdNo=31053 http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1124&LotIdNo=14069 Dull Luster http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1122&Lot_No=7203 http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=69032&Lot_No=62028
I agree. How a coin looks frequently means more to me than the grade. A lot can slip by if your eyes focus on the number on the holder instead of on the appearance of the coin.
I bid on it, but didn't win. I put down strong money... For an average coin of that grade. The awesome luster carried it to a BIG premium - 30% or so. In a room of great large cents, that one stood out. Why ? Luster.
Thanks for all the replies. Let me see if I get this correct. A coin has luster if I can see evidence of flow lines from the strike. These flow lines show up as bands of light and dark as the coin is moved around in the presence of light. The luster is microscopic in nature and wears off fairly quickly as the coin is handled. Luster can show up on an old coin but it is harder to detect. If this is correct it brings up another question or two: How does luster show up on proof coins? Does luster wear off quicker on coins made out of softer metals; e.g. a nickel versus a Morgan dollar? Just how fragile is luster on a coin? I realize that any handling of a new coin causes deterioration but how quickly does it detroy luster?
Age really has nothing to do with the preservation of luster. If the coin is properly preserved the luster can be preserved indefinitely. However, luster may be harder to detect on an old coin that has heavily toned. Proof coins do not have luster. As the dies that strike busniess strike coins wear they develop flow lines that cause luster. Proof coins are struck with highly-polished dies. The Proof dies are polished every few strikes so they never develop flow lines and hence the coins they strike do not have luster. VERY.
Most of the remaining luster on a coin is gone once the coin is worn past the AU grades. A mint state coin should have full luster with no breaks. The higher AU grades show breaks in the luster where the coin has suffered wear. In XF (and below), the coin may show some luster in the protected recesses of the coin, but for the most part, the luster is gone. Luster is hard to describe in words, and hard show in photographs. However, I think this photo of three Barber Quarters will show the difference in luster effectively. Note the first coin which is VF has no remaining luster. The second coin is AU and displays broken luster in both the fields and devices. The last coin is mint state and shows full mint luster. This is a simplified explanation of luster which is actually a pretty complicated topic. There are different types of luster on a coin: flat, satin, frosty (cartwheel), semi-prooflike, and prooflike. Instead of explaining each type of luster, I think it would be more fun for members to pick one type of luster, post a photo that exemplifies that type and give a brief description. Yep that's right, I am tired, and I am passing the buck.
Not exactly true Hobo, Proof coins definitely have luster. But it is a different kind of luster than that found on business strikes. Any coin, Proof or business strike, is absolutely going to have flow lines as a result of being struck. It is physically impossible for it to be otherwise because the metal always flows to fill the recesses of the die. And luster is not created on business strikes because the dies wear out. Luster is created because the metal flows and that's it. Think of this situation - you have a brand new pair of business strike dies, and you strike a coin with a them. Now does that coin not have any luster ? Based on your explantion it couldn't have any because there was never any metal flowing across those new dies to wear them out and thus create wear lines. But the truth of the matter is that the coin struck with those brand new business strike dies absolutely has luster, and lots of it. And yet there is not even 1 flow line cut into the dies by wear. Yes, there are fine lines in the surface of the die, but those lines are there as a result of die preparation (polishing). Regardless of how smooth the surface of the die and the planchet - the metal flows as the coin is struck. This is an absolute and has no exception. And if the metal flows there is luster - this is also an absolute. However, there are many different types of luster, each separate and distinct from the other. As mentioned, there is business strike luster, Proof (aka brilliant) luster, Prooflike luster, satin luster and matte luster. And all of them are created by the variations of die preparation. The easist way to think of luster so that you can understand it is to imagine that luster is a series of ridges like this - /\/\/\/\/\/. Now it is the height of those ridges that determines what type of luster a coin will have. But even on Proofs, if viewed at the microscopic level, those ridges are there. For no matter how smooth something is polished, the lines are still there. You just can't see them with the naked eye any longer. Of course you can't see actual lines on a business strike with the naked eye either. Not until you have lines caused by wear can you see them. But those lines are not what creates luster.
