July 1 -- License required to sell bullion in Ohio

The Supreme Court recently refused to hear a case concerning the constitutionality of Ohio's proposed precious metals licensing law(s), and remanded the issue back to the State courts, which reaffirmed the law. This is probably the toughest law in all 50 states. It will drive many individuals OUT of the bullion market. Penalties include fines and imprisonment, and I'm hearing rumors that State enforcers will monitor flea markets, classifieds, CraigsList, etc., and "maybe" websites like CoinTalk. Not sure, so don't quote me.

As of July 1, Ohio residents will need a license, a background check, an interview, a physical location meeting certain security standards, precise record-keeping, bonding, restraints over advertising, and SUBSTANTIAL licensing fees to run a bullion operation (and maybe more).

It is unknown how the law might affect eBay sales, since eBay makes it clear that they are "not" the Seller. Also unknown, the effect on public auctions, coin shows, and other points of sale.

I have no further information, and suggest you Google "Ohio Precious Metals Dealers License" to get the latest info. Make sure what you read is dated 2015, as this issue has been kicked around the courts for several years now, changing constantly.

And if you want to be REALLY confused, here's the law:
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/4728.

 

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Dang im glad I can go to flea markets in Florida. Still will probably effect my eBay buying though.That should be illegal.

 

IDK man, first paragraph of the exceptions reads:

"
This chapter does not apply to any of the following:
(A) Any purchase of an article that is made of or contains gold, silver, platinum, or other precious metals or jewels of any description if both the buyer and seller, or the respective agents, brokers, or other intermediaries of both the buyer and seller, deal in such articles or otherwise by their respective occupations, or by their respective avocations as collectors, speculators, or investors, hold themselves out as having knowledge or skill peculiar to such articles or the practices involved in their purchase or sale;"

Doesn't this mean these restrictions do not apply to transactions between dealers and collectors? If so, this law is nothing compared to MN horrible law.

 

So who is the law targeting? The cash for gold types?

 

Maybe that's the solution to that law: Just buy and sell precious metal containing coins?

 

I don't have time right now to read the links or research the subject. Would I be correct to assume that the purpose of this law (and the MN law someone alluded to) is primarily to capture tax revenue for the state?

 

Then you get into the problem, for instance, is the ASE a coin or bullion? They sell for substantially more (especially graded) than the silver value; are the uncirculateds bullion and the proofs numismatic?

 

Max, I suspect it will cost far more to enforce the law than the chicken feed fees it brings in. Remember, ALL governments hate cash and cash-equivalents, because it's hard to track and control, and then the powers-that-be cite that catch-all TRAP, money-laundering. Oh, and don't forget confiscation, a VERY lucrative enterprise.

 

Well, now, that's the kind of limpid clarity that reinforces my robust respect for government regulations and the legislators who pass them.

 

Most real brick-and-mortar dealers already have the proper license; it's the amateurs, part-timers, and vest-pocket dealers that get whacked. Since the law requires a PHYSICAL location, not your vest pocket or the trunk of your car, that
means renting commercial space, getting phones, furnishing the place, setting up utilities, complying with the security specifics. All that ain't cheap, plus figure 3 months' delay.

Note, it would be nuts to use your home as the physical location -- the license is a public record showing your address, PLUS subject to inspection by the authorities at any time, and they, umm, might make the baby cry. And, beyond all that, you don't want strangers visiting your house anyway. Myself, I like to wheel and deal in a bank lobby. Like, what's a McDonald's manager going to do, throw a soggy double cheeseburger at the crook?

One thing for sure, by July 1, I'll delete ALL my CraigsList coin ads, permanently; all I get is psychopaths, chiselers, and trolls anyhow.

 

By "tax revenue" I meant sales tax, not fees for registration, licensing, etc.

 

Then there's the other side. This guy is not paying anywhere near melt for 90% halves. http://huntsville.craigslist.org/wan/4964721883.html

 

Annoying how much that guy is trying to rip people off.

 

Yes, they are LOW values....I had several local coin shops (and dealers) offer about the same for PM and Low wholesale for other collectibles; Basically, about 1/3 to less than half of their conservative retail values---talk about markup for profit margins. However, most do offer at least the days listed melt values for gold and silver and add a premium to the new buyers..... The 'guy' you refer to is a total low-life hump.

 

Almost sounds like it is saying it doesn't apply if both parties claim they know what they are doing.

 

Conder, I had that feeling too -- but darned hard to "prove" that to an aggressive regulator. This law is not about protecting the consumer, it's about tax evasion and money laundering, and government tracking of your finances. Also, the two dealers I talked to this morning, believe that there's little of significance or concern to bullion BUYERS. You can run a BUY ad on CraigsList or wherever, but you can't resell it without the license.

Coin, antique, and pawn shops can put big signs in their windows and buy all they want (so much for any HINT of consumer protection). We have a marvelous, big, heads-up coin club here in Columbus, I'll try to get to the next meeting, this should be virtually the only topic of conversation.

We're also lucky that Coin World is headquartered in Ohio (Sidney, same as Linn's Stamp News) and they will see (and hopefully report on) the dire unintended consequences of this nonsense first-hand.

 

Yes, I have read the thread through several times, and I do not see any dire consequences to coin transactions by vest pocket dealers, coin club auctions, known collector to known collector exchanges, etc. I personally want to see taxes enforced or inhibiting factors put on money laundering. Rather than imagining 'confiscation' boogeymen. Just show you coin club membership card when dealing or have the other party sign a release that they are an informed collector. Unless of course no one wants any trace so appropriate taxes can be avoided. They considered numismatic exchanges when it was written, no matter how poorly, so why read more into it? They could have left that out , and then you would have 'dire' consequences. Best of luck in Ohio.

 

Not so fast. Flea marketers can't sell 90%. A "private" transaction at the coin club might prove costly if the buyer's a roaming undercover agent for the State. The sale of 10 rolls of silver quarters might invite a visit from the sales tax guy.

It never ends. If this is the camel's nose under the tent, the jawbone down the line might be, for instance, the bank takes your picture when you deposit any check over $3,000 or the balance of your checking account turns over every 30 days. Or your slabbed proof ASE might turn into "bullion" overnight.

Like I said, it's not about consumer protection. By the way, Mr. Citizen, are you funding terrorism via PM's? Prove you're not...

Hmm-m-m, Mr. Citizen, did you visit your parents in Jordan in 2006? You did? We would like to see your passport to examine the visa for your 7-hour side trip into Syria, on Sunday the 14th of May...

It's all about government monitoring of citizens, cash, and who you know, where. I really, really don't care whether you think this is paranoia or not, amigos.