Is It Offensive to Complete my Grandfather's Indian Head Penny Collection?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Blonegilligan, Aug 29, 2018.

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  1. Blonegilligan

    Blonegilligan New Member

    I just found this forum to ask what is I suppose is an unusual question. I have no Native American ancestry and so I wanted to seek guidance. If there is another place folks recommend I post my question, please let me know.

    To make a long story short, in the 1920s my (now deceased) grandfather worked as a young boy in his family’s delicatessen in New York. Whenever he got the chance, he would sneak into the cash register and pull out any coins that looked neat to him. What he liked the most were Indian Head pennies. As a child he managed to gather about half of the 60 or so coins of a complete collection. He used to tell me stories about his coin collecting when I was a kid (in the 1980s and 1990s). Before he died, he gave me his collection of Indian Head pennies he had kept all these years, as well as some other coins.


    Lately, I’ve been drawn to the idea of selling the other coins he gave me and purchasing the Indian Head pennies he never found, in order to complete his collection. I like the idea of learning a bit about coins, but more importantly I like the idea of completing a collection my grandfather started almost 100 years ago. I even thought about framing the collection as something to remind me of my grandfather.


    My question: Is the Indian Head penny offensive to Native Americans, such that I would be better off just selling these (sentimental) coins?

    I have not been able to find a good answer to this question online. My sense is that it may well be an offensive thing to collect and display (although I suspect many on this forum would disagree). My understanding is that the coin has a Caucasian-looking woman wearing a feathered headdress that would traditionally be worn by a man. Also, during the period of mintage obviously the U.S. government was doing a lot of bad things to Native American tribes. On the other hand, they’re coins, and arguably when the U.S. puts something on currency it does so to honor a particular group.


    In short, I would really like to complete the collection and keep it. But if is offensive, I would not want to further such offensiveness, let alone display it in my home.

    Thanks for any advice.
     
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  3. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Best Answer
    Since we're now so concerned about "offending" others, but apparently only select others of certain protected classes, perhaps another look at areas of mentioned history is in order.

    Apparently the OP hasn't a problem labeling the so-called "confederate flag" as "offensive" as if all the men who fought and died fighting under it held the same surely "racist" beliefs/motivations, or at least those embraced by the revisionist crowd. Of course this would be ignoring the fact that the vast majority of said men had absolutely nothing to do with slavery and fought not to perpetuate it, but did so due to the fact their homes had been invaded by an unfriendly occupying force as, I assume, most reasonable men would do especially at that time. We conveniently ignore the fact that at that time most people felt their state akin to what we today see as a country, instead labeling them as traitors simply because we choose to view/judge historical people through a lens of ignorance. While I can understand why some find it offensive, many others quite reasonably find people wishing to rewrite history and smear millions of Americans in the process to also be offensive. Where's the outrage or even concern?

    Still, let's bring this back to the Indian issue since they're the group he's so concerned with somehow offending by doing something very personal that has absolutely nothing to do with a single person living today. Perhaps, instead of asking a coin forum he should search out a member of the Erie tribe to ask if they're offended by the collecting of such coins. Unfortunately, he might have some difficulty finding one since they were the victims not of the horrid "white man" but of genocide at the hands of Seneca Indians. Of course one can only assume that their very lives and culture being wiped off the face of the earth was in no way comparable to some present-day unknown possibly being "offended", especially since we're never supposed to talk about atrocities unless those committed by certain racial/ethnic groups. Still, since the Eries are out, perhaps he could instead ask one of the "Neutrals" from the NY/Canadian border, but they too were wholly slaughtered by the Senecas. Where is the outrage and/or condemnation?

    Sadly, it seems the entire position of some here (as well as the fact such a blatantly political subject has predictably been allowed to stand without the mod-generated insults similar offenses often enjoy) has less to do with a fear of offending others and everything to do with the embrace of special protected classes magically immune from having to wear the badge of dishonor earned by their forebearers. There isn't a race on this planet that hasn't committed wrongs against another, often for the same ignorant reasons many selectively attack certain other groups for today. If one genuinely wishes to tread lightly and not use certain terms that could be deemed offensive, that's great and I applaud their efforts, but it's meaningless as long as only select groups are deemed worthy of said efforts while others can be acceptable targets of their vitriol. One of the greatest truisms of the human experience is that those refusing to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    This country desperately needs to wake up to the fact we're never going be this melting pot, this multicultural, multiethnic, multiracial, multi-religious nation until identity politics and protected classes are thrown into the dustbin of history, and if we don't the divisions will only grow greater. History is history. Like it, hate it, who cares. Just don't repeat it. JMHO, of course.
     
    johnmatt, Cheech9712, Evan8 and 9 others like this.
  4. green18

    green18 Unknown member Sweet on Commemorative Coins Supporter

    Sustain the legacy. Go for it Brother.

    I've a few friends who are 'Native American' and they see nothing wrong about being referred to as 'Indians'............
     
  5. desertgem

    desertgem Senior Errer Collecktor Supporter

    Think of the image as Hollywood type.
     
    Robert91791 likes this.
  6. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Not at all. They are part of American history. Go for it.
     
    Cheech9712 and John Johnson like this.
  7. Kentucky

    Kentucky Supporter! Supporter

    Nice sentiment...do it
     
    Cheech9712 and LA_Geezer like this.
  8. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    I’ve never heard of anyone taking offense to the portrayal of the Native American on our coinage. He lives to this day on the Gold Buffalo bullion coin.
     
    Cheech9712 likes this.
  9. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    The image is honoring the American Natives. If you look closely, you will see that the image of the woman is actually a stylized Greek persona wearing a headdress. She is the same person used by the designer, James Longacre, on the 3-Cent Nickel coin, the $3 Gold coins and the $20 Gold Liberty.
    I have a friend that has done study into which Indian tribe that style of headdress belongs to. I don't remember which, but the area in the U.S. where they were from is in Michigan. It so happens that the first and biggest copper mines in the U.S. were in Michigan. The headdress on the $3 gold (which isn't that typically seen) is from the NC/Georgia area. Guess where the first large gold mines in the U.S. were found? North Carolina & Georgia. Longacre put a lot of thought into the designs. The designs weren't randomly chosen.

    By finishing your grandfather's collection, you are honoring him. Unfortunately, we believe naming anything after an American Indian is terrible. It isn't - most of them think it is good, or they are indifferent. The Washington Redskins were named after one of the early coaches of the team that the owner had hired. He wanted to honor him with a name that was different than just using the name "Indians", since that was used a lot. Redskins was a slang term, but not an insult. I am of Irish descent. Does the University of Notre Dame using the nickname "Fighting Irish" offend me? Heck no. It's cool. I don't think they were trying to poke fun at drunken Irishmen fighting. We need to not take everything so seriously in this country. If we keep it up, we will not remember that there was anyone here before North America was settled by Europeans, and there wasn't a civil war fought that liberated enslaved people.
     
  10. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Best Answer
    Since we're now so concerned about "offending" others, but apparently only select others of certain protected classes, perhaps another look at areas of mentioned history is in order.

    Apparently the OP hasn't a problem labeling the so-called "confederate flag" as "offensive" as if all the men who fought and died fighting under it held the same surely "racist" beliefs/motivations, or at least those embraced by the revisionist crowd. Of course this would be ignoring the fact that the vast majority of said men had absolutely nothing to do with slavery and fought not to perpetuate it, but did so due to the fact their homes had been invaded by an unfriendly occupying force as, I assume, most reasonable men would do especially at that time. We conveniently ignore the fact that at that time most people felt their state akin to what we today see as a country, instead labeling them as traitors simply because we choose to view/judge historical people through a lens of ignorance. While I can understand why some find it offensive, many others quite reasonably find people wishing to rewrite history and smear millions of Americans in the process to also be offensive. Where's the outrage or even concern?

    Still, let's bring this back to the Indian issue since they're the group he's so concerned with somehow offending by doing something very personal that has absolutely nothing to do with a single person living today. Perhaps, instead of asking a coin forum he should search out a member of the Erie tribe to ask if they're offended by the collecting of such coins. Unfortunately, he might have some difficulty finding one since they were the victims not of the horrid "white man" but of genocide at the hands of Seneca Indians. Of course one can only assume that their very lives and culture being wiped off the face of the earth was in no way comparable to some present-day unknown possibly being "offended", especially since we're never supposed to talk about atrocities unless those committed by certain racial/ethnic groups. Still, since the Eries are out, perhaps he could instead ask one of the "Neutrals" from the NY/Canadian border, but they too were wholly slaughtered by the Senecas. Where is the outrage and/or condemnation?

    Sadly, it seems the entire position of some here (as well as the fact such a blatantly political subject has predictably been allowed to stand without the mod-generated insults similar offenses often enjoy) has less to do with a fear of offending others and everything to do with the embrace of special protected classes magically immune from having to wear the badge of dishonor earned by their forebearers. There isn't a race on this planet that hasn't committed wrongs against another, often for the same ignorant reasons many selectively attack certain other groups for today. If one genuinely wishes to tread lightly and not use certain terms that could be deemed offensive, that's great and I applaud their efforts, but it's meaningless as long as only select groups are deemed worthy of said efforts while others can be acceptable targets of their vitriol. One of the greatest truisms of the human experience is that those refusing to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    This country desperately needs to wake up to the fact we're never going be this melting pot, this multicultural, multiethnic, multiracial, multi-religious nation until identity politics and protected classes are thrown into the dustbin of history, and if we don't the divisions will only grow greater. History is history. Like it, hate it, who cares. Just don't repeat it. JMHO, of course.
     
    johnmatt, Cheech9712, Evan8 and 9 others like this.
  11. physics-fan3.14

    physics-fan3.14 You got any more of them.... prooflikes?

    The coins are a part of our shared history. It should not be offensive at all.

    I'm more offended that you thought you had to ask the question. It shows the depths of the snowflake culture that even mentioning Indians, or objects which purport to depict Indians, could be deemed as offensive, especially as considered in a historical context.
     
  12. fretboard

    fretboard Defender of Old Coinage!

    Honoring your Grandfather by completing his collection is a great idea! thumbupp.gif I don't collect Indian Head Cents but I have a small collection of Indian Head tokens and medals and Native Americans don't care much about stuff like that at all. What they care about is their sacred land and other issues that affect them directly whether it's environmental issues or land issues. angel4.gif
     
  13. *coins

    *coins Well-Known Member

    Just like the Confederate flag, which is now "offensive" to people - lol. Just because something is American history doesn't mean it isn't "offensive". Nowadays, anything is offensive to people.
     
    1916D10C, Cheech9712, enamel7 and 2 others like this.
  14. *coins

    *coins Well-Known Member

    Yes, neat idea! You should finish the collection on my opinion.
     
  15. frankjg

    frankjg Well-Known Member

    Best series of US coins, in my opinion.

    In fact, my grandfather gave me his Whitman folders when I was like 10 years old and I’ve been working, slowly, to complete the IHC series over the last 30 years.

    It’s an honor, not an offense.
     
    LA_Geezer likes this.
  16. BooksB4Coins

    BooksB4Coins Newbieus Sempiterna

    Seriously? Where are the warnings?
     
    Nathan401 likes this.
  17. Santinidollar

    Santinidollar Supporter! Supporter

    The Surgeon General has determined....
     
    Two Dogs and Robert91791 like this.
  18. Garlicus

    Garlicus Debt is dumb, cash is king.

    Hmm, my dilemma would be whether to put them in the same book, or get a separate book for the coins that I collected to complete his set, thus keeping 'his' coins intact. Strange, I know.
    Keeping them separate would probably be my choice.
     
    TheFinn and Wingnut6999 like this.
  19. NumisNinja

    NumisNinja Active Member

    The United States, and literally everything it's history and heritage symbolizes is an afront to Native Americans. So if they want to take offense at something, they have a lot to choose from beyond ihc's. That's why I wouldn't worry about it.
     
    JCro57 likes this.
  20. USCoinCollector42

    USCoinCollector42 Well-Known Member

    People will find a reason to get offended at anything. I'd say go for it- do whatever you feel honors your grandfather.
     
    john59 and JCro57 like this.
  21. Pickin and Grinin

    Pickin and Grinin Well-Known Member

    Do you plan on finishing out the set with the same look or give it a new look. I am sure that your Grand father wound be ok with you one upping him, especially if you took the time to know what to look for. Hang around and soak up some knowledge. you will prolly find out a little more about you GPA.
     
  22. omahaorange

    omahaorange Active Member

    Interesting question, and not too surprising in this day and age. Me, I'm not offended, but then again, I'm of Italian descent. Here, we recently had an on-line petition circulating stating the name of a local high school team was offensive to Native Americans and demanding a change. A current student started this. As a side note, the college in the same town caved to the pressure a few years ago and changed it's team name to something "less offensive"

    What was surprising about the current drive, a vast majority of the respondents actually said keep the name, "Little Indians".
     
  23. dwhiz

    dwhiz Collector Supporter

    Just do it
     
    LA_Geezer likes this.
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