Is it legal to counterstamp a coin?

Hi guys,
I know that it is illegal to fraudulently deface any coins, but does counterstamping fall under that category?
I thought it would be cool to counterstamp some no date buffalo nickels or junky Kenedys, etc.
Is this even possible? I have seen other counterstamped coins in circulation for political campaigns and such but I was curious if it's legal in this sense. I appreciate any input. Thanks!

 

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Yes

 

Would it be legal if it was considered a form of marketing for something?

 

The gubmint don't care about your reasons as long as you are not fraudulently defacing coinage.

 

Btw my yes answers your first question ... is it legal

 

Haha cool thanks. I guess I just didnt know what they consider "fraudulent"

 

It's kind of a grey area... when you come to advertising on coinage...

Here is someone who tried it quite some time ago and was forced to stop by the government.

I collect pieces that he made. I have 5 at the moment.

http://www.cointalk.com/t190400/

 

Those are cool!
But wouldn't those be considered fraudulent? He is completely covering up an entire side.
I'm talking like a one or two word counterstamp that wouldn't cover up any existing words.

 

Guess I have to eat my words here. The gubment does care if they say it's fraudulent. Guess that's the determining factor. Does the gubment pronounce one thing fraudulent and let other things go, at their discretion, and for no apparent reason?

For example.

evidently flattened pennies/elongated pennies/encased pennies (with advertising around them) is not fraudulent, since the gubment has never gone after them, and has ignored all past and current ones.

evidently counterstamping like Daniel Carr doesn't qualify as fraudulent either, since the new date is not on a real coin

evidently counterstamping kennedy facing lincoln on a penny and selling the same penny for 4.95 is not fraudulent either

but somehow putting a sticker on the dollar or quarter is. A sticker that I would suppose could be removed. Guess it's the gubment's definition of intent to pass as advertising that defines fraudulent to them.

 

I wonder if the government would consider it fraudulent if someone, instead of putting a sticker on the coin, simply created a separate wrapper (like a candy wrapper for a peppermint patty) and put the advertising paper around (but not on) the coin. The recipient would then be left with a choice of either removing the wrapper and spending the coin as the gov't minted it, or keeping it as is. But the coin, I would suppose, would not be "fraudulently" defaced. Or would it?

 

Good point. I would say no. Because then technically a coin in a pcgs or ngc holder would be fraudulent and considered advertising for those companies (which it is either way)

 

http://www.pauljackson.com/Quartergate.pdf

absolutely fascinating story on the Missouri quarters.

 

Very cool read

 

Here's one of my personal counterstamps. I had the punch made a couple of years ago and counterstamp culls (mostly Large Cents) The "gubment" wouldn't be interested in this one though because of its old appearance. I have three others too and punch one on mostly state quarters. Nobody banging on my front door...yet.

Bruce

 

Sure, it is legal..

 

cool

 

Very cool!
This is close to what I'm thinking of doing.
The only problem is that on my end it could technically count as marketing...

Is there any government person I could contact to double check with all this or no?
Thanks guys!

 

What are you planning on counterstamping and with what slogan comma? Is it for a business or just personal? Mine obviously is personal as I use them to trade with or just send to other collectors as a way of saying hello. I'm always looking for other collectors who have personal stamps and have actually found a couple of dozen over the years.

Bruce

 

Comma: marketing on coins/currency is a gray area at best, and illegal at worst. I believe that there is a separate section of the US code that applies to this.

Some anecdotal evidence to back this up:

1) "Where's George" - the Secret Service scrutinized the originator of that site/practice, and accepted the rubber stamping on dollar bills as long as he stopped selling the rubber stamps on his site (he was not allowed to make any profit on the stamping of currency, but once that aspect was removed, it was OK).

2) "Silver Surfer" colorized quarters that were placed into circulation a few years back. The Secret Service protested bcause it was done for advertising and the coins were put into circulation. The implication was that if they had not been intended to circulate then it would have been OK.

So...proceed carefully. My own opinion is that you can, for all practical purposes, stamp whatever you want on a coin, but if you want to circulate them as advertising that might be an issue. (Just my opinion, and I am not a lawyer). You can contact the Secret Servcie to ask for a clarifiaction, but once you raise the issue you may get more govt scrutiny than you bargained for or deserve.

P.S. - Like BRandM, I would like to get a sample of whatever you stamp, if you decide to move forward. I have put 10,000 - 20,000 counterstamped coins into circulation and I collect whatever counterstamps I can find, espcially from modern counterstampers.

 

Good advice from JBK comma.

Bruce