Important Read! Bob Chapman - International Forecaster article

http://theinternationalforecaster.c...n_Uncertain_Waters_Increases_Risk_of_Drowning

This is a pretty interesting article from Bob Chapman discussing China, silver and gold manipulation and ETF's running on paper only rather than physical assets. Anyway, I read the guy regularly and listen to him on radio programs. He has seen it all. Smart guy.

 

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"In fact, the gold and silver being promised as backing for the holders of ETF shares may be the same gold and silver that is used to back COMEX futures contracts. The ETF's may well be leasing their gold and silver to the COMEX, which may then be handing it out to settle COMEX physical demands for delivery."

I copied the above out of the article with my emphasis. Note that the allegations are stated as possibilities, not probabilities or as facts. If you read the GLD perspectus [yes, I read it], there is absolutely nothing in it to even hint at the presence of derivatives in the GLD portfolio. Bob Chapman doesn't provide a shred of evidence that his assertions are true. It is very easy to make unsubstantiated claims like this and sound profound. If this turns out to be true, it will be a major news story. If Bob Chapman has any evidence to back his statements, he should turn it over to the SEC. Otherwise, this is just another doom and gloom newsletter.

Edit: Additionally, nobody has ever lost even the smallest quantity of a physical asset stored in a Comex warehouse in its history. Naturally, the assets fluctuate in value, but they have always been secure. The assertion that the gold and silver stored there might not be there is another unsubstantiated claim.

 

Don't shoot the messenger. Part of this goes hand in hand with what Ted Butler has been saying. I found it poignant. Anyway, of course take it with a grain of salt. Just saying that it might be good to have physical assets now.

 

I don't think it's poignant. I think it's wrong. I don't recall Ted Butler saying that GLD held derivatives instead of physical gold, or that the Comex warehouses didn't hold the metal they claim to have. Can you post a link?

 

I probably won't live to see this scenario come to fruition, but Copper will be the Gold of the future, not diamonds,not gold, not silver. Technology demands it.

 

So, you read Ted Butler? He talks about paper silver contracts with no backing that is how he thinks all these short contracts can be held thus falsely holding back silver prices. Are you saying that you don't think that can happen with gold too?

http://news.silverseek.com/TedButler/1252075929.php

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"But this much is clear – the long anticipated default of the massive OTC silver derivatives position by China appears to be at hand. It’s hard to imagine a more profound event. All at once, the backing and excuse for the concentrated short position on the COMEX is exposed for the fraud it has always been. No longer can the CFTC pretend that the COMEX silver short position is backed by anything legitimate. Not when China, itself, is saying it may default. So many game changes have emerged in silver over the past few months that it is hard to appreciate them all. These recent announcements by China concerning its future intentions on select OTC commodity derivatives could be the most important of all.[/FONT][/FONT]"

This is one article. I don't know how many I have read by him.

There is a good archive of his stuff on the Investment Rarities site if you are interested.

 

You might be surprised. Give it 20 years and copper could be the same price as silver.

 

The article by Ted Butler is completely unrelated to the assertions by Bob Chapman that GLD doesn't hold physical gold or that there is no gold and silver in the Comex warehouses. Ted is talking about the concentration in the futures market and how many of the folks shorting silver contracts don't own the silver necessary to meet delivery and may default if they can't borrow the silver from China. But rest assured, every ounce of silver for which there is a Comex warehouse receipt is backed by physical silver plus insurance at the Comex warehouse. It just isn't owned by the folks with the naked short positions. But I can see how this might confuse people.

 

Sounds like an article written with some hidden intent to draw more readers and or attention to the author.

I agree though, before making serious allegations like this there should be some foundation of proof layed out.

 

[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"No longer can the CFTC pretend that the COMEX silver short position is backed by anything legitimate.[/FONT][/FONT]"
[FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]
[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Arial, Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]I take this to mean that they are paper contracts not "backed by anything legitimate"

I take shorts to mean paper contracts not physical silver.

You seem to think that paper contacts mean that they are backed by silver and or gold.

Ted and Bob are suggesting that if all paper contracts were called in that there would not be enough silver or gold to cover those contracts.

Bob is applying it to ETF's possibly. Isn't a warning to own physical metals prudent?

So, what am I missing here?
[/FONT][/FONT]

 

it's all on a boat to china.

 

I think what you are missing is the distinction between the futures contracts that trade on the Comex exchange and the physical gold and silver in the warehouse for which warehouse receipts have been issued to the owners. The Comex warehouse receipts are most definitely pieces of paper backed in full by gold and silver. Of this there is no doubt. The futures contracts are just promises. Anybody can sell a futures contract without holding physical silver in the warehouse. Large traders who can disrupt the market must demonstrate to the regulators that they have access to silver held inside or outside of the warehouse. That's where China comes in. The rumor is that some large banks were shorting silver and relying on off-exchange contracts with China to supply the physical silver if needed. Now that this is in doubt, some futures contracts may default -- or so it is said. That's what Butler is saying. Chapman is asserting that there is no gold or silver in the Comex warehouses and that GLD doesn't own physical gold and only holds futures and derivatives contrary to what is stated in the prospectus -- but he offers no proof.

Personally, I think Butler might turn out to be correct and the contracts will default -- or more likely be settled in cash. But Chapman has a high probability of being wrong. The two men are most definitely talking about two different things. Comex warehouse receipts for gold and silver are completely safe; safer than a safe deposit box or anyplace in your home no matter how well secured. It is irresponsible for Chapman to encourage people to remove it. GLD has problems, but faking their gold holdings probably isn't one of them.

 

Well what is to stop them acting like the fractional reserve banking system to make a buck on commodities?

 

This is a very interesting discoution, but I just want to chime in that the Chapman article made my eyes bleed. Illuminaite, Shadow Governmnet, This Dbag probobly thinks that 911 was a conspiericy, that we never made it to the moon, and that the 14th amendment was never ratified, and I do not even want to get him started on the eveil eveil federal reserve. How could any one take a clown like this serious.

I am going to admit that I just used Adhominim and Straw Man arguments (see mom and dad my philosophy degree is worth something ) but still what a clown.

In America and The world for that matter if you enter into a contract then you have to pay it. It makes perfect sense that a contract would be paid in eather the x commodite you where shorting or cash. Wow it must suck to have shorted silver I would file bancruptcy as well. LoL


Also I would like to note that This champan fellow seems to hate America and uses anti-semtic rhetoric when he talks about the cia and massad. ( I also have a communications degree)


This is sorta related. But Aig via the american government paid billions of dollars to foregin banks to live up to there contractual obligations. While it may seem to the bronze class of peole that this is bad because it takes amercian tax dollars and ships them overseas. Gold class thinkers can realize the strong precedent it sends that American Companies live up to our contractual obligations. If Contract Law goes out the window what is left. It is common knowledge that those that seek justice must act justly. I am glad that america does not have dirty hands.

 

I really hope you are being sarcastic. Especially the last paragraph. The fear was a lot of rich people go broke if the house of cards fell.

I saw no anti-semitic rant in his post.

http://theinternationalforecaster.com/Bob_Chapman

There is his bio if you care to read it.

 

The anti-semitism part is the way he talks about mossad (isralie equivlent) of the cia. I'm willing to say I might of over analysed that part, but form the tone, yes you can have a written tone, he is not a big fan of the israle governemnt. There is an argument to be made as to weather that is or is not anti-symetic. So even if unintentional still not a very nice way to talk about people. I read it again and he does accuse them of being money laundering theves. Lots of senseitve metaphores with this. Ie money hungrey Jews being offensive. Sure not blatent but its implied if noathing else, and it is prety clear that he does not like America


I am 100% serious about everything else I said. Especaly the part about paying out the contracts. it is not about "rich people going busto", but about the integrety of contract law, and for that matter the money was paid out to foregin banks which used depositer money to buy safe bonds that where not so safe after all. I am not a big fan of government bailouts, but I do belive in free trade and the integrety of the world trade organization. If we are going to bail our banks/ companies out we have to live up to there contractual obligaitions. I think on the reverse side that what happend to Chrysler bond holders was an absolute disgrace. They got screwed out of money because our hack of a presedendt labled them as "rich speculaers" but gm bond holders who where "working class men" and the labor union got a much higher premium. Classist rhetoric is wrong. if I buy pay you money to insure a bond and the bond goes bad you should pay my policy. It is a priavate contract. You take my money you ow me the money back when I need my insurance. This goes to the very hart of the china silver agrument in his article. China writes contracts to pay silver. They decided they don't want to give the silver out after the fact. Thats BS



As to his qualifications. O.K. he knows a little somthing about metal traing, but as far as shadow goverments and the iluminati take away any credibilty he may have goes away. He is obviously a conspirecy hack clowed is very correct when he asserts that this man spews more bs then a sewage drain.


And my first paragraph just to make this clear.

1. We made it to the moon multiple times, and Mars for that matter. We will make it even farther as technology advances, and if people in central flordia can live with nuclear powerd rockets.


2. We ratified the 14th amendment. only racist d bags object to this fact.

3. 9-11 was not an inside job

4. The federal reserve is not an eveil instituion Andrew Jackson already proved what happens when we don't have a central curancy. IE the crash of 1837. Also interstate commerce is a good thing, and we need a way for our country to borrow money, and we need people to set our monitary policy.


This is a free country and your welcome to disagree with me. I just think the man is a hack. He may know things about investing in metals, but his complete lack of a grip on reality makes it very hard to take him serious.


So to answer your question no I am not being sarcastic

 

The commodities market is heavily regulated and the contents of the warehouses are subject to audit and insured. Maybe you can work for Chapman because now you are making up what-if scenarios with no basis in reality to try to manufacture a problem where none exists.

 

Back during the depression many a bank went out of business when rumors started a panic and people pulled all their assets out of the bank.

The movie "its a wonderful life" had some stock scenes of bank runs.

Despite the rhetoric, confuting conspiracy theories, such articles by Bob Chapman tend to inflate the prices of PMs. Which is not a way to stick it to the man.

 

Blueindian,

I don't think you know enough about the topic to comment that way. Your writing and spelling is very sloppy for someone with a communications degree. The posts were devoid of fact and full of crude slurs. While I don't agree with what Chapman said about the topics under discussion, the man is definitely a patriot and a military veteran. What is clear to even the casual reader is that he loves America. Disagreeing with Israeli government policy doesn't equate to anti-semitism. You should have taken a logic course along the way to your philosophy degree, and would know this is a false argument. You also don't seem to have a grasp of contract law. Under contract law, any company not able to fulfill their financial contracts should be forced into bankruptcy court and liquidated for the benefit of creditors. What contract law does not mean is seeking a government bailout so that one set of international elite investment bankers can enrich another set of international bankers with several generations of individual taxpayers who were never party to the contract making the payments. You might also investigate Andrew Jackson a bit more. While it is true his treatment of the banks resulted in a depression when the banks pulled all of the credit out of the economic system, it also resulted in the payoff of the national debt and set the stage for a huge economic boom. Similar to today, there was a lot of bad debt that needed to be liquidated. But unlike today, Jackson had the guts to do it rather than throw good money after bad. But keep reading this and other threads and maybe we can help you understand.

 

Clouds: I'll post a longer argument in a little while, but the fact that I don't use proper english is a combenation of fast typing, and im dyslexic as the day is long. If you knew much about comunications studies or critical theory for that matter you would realize that "proper english" is a myth, and that one does not have to use proper english for the comunication process to exist. The simple fact that you could say my arguments lack "logic" as an example would prove that the process worked. as to the rest of it. In my first post indefied the fact that a few of the arguments I make are logical falices such as adhominims, calling him a hack and a straw man arguemtn when I argued that he proboly belivd in other conspiericey theorys. I guess a quesiton would be why would one need logos to critizes a speakers ethos. Champman also use many pathos based arguemtns, not to be confused with pathetic (sp) as they are, but more that they appeal to peoples emotions. I am about to leave to drive to my lake house in a few minutes so i'll post more about this in a few minutes.

But as a last thought it is in poor taste to refute someons argument with an argument they made. Yes the banks and Aig should of gone into bankrupcey a big proponet of this is a Fraternity brother of mine Senetor Richard Shelby.

As far as the slures go. A) I don't care. and B) if you don't belive that we went to the moon, That 911 was a conspiercy by the bush/ some globale eleites, or that we never ratified the 14th amendment than you are ****!!!!,

And as a point of fact Jackson left office many years before the depression happend and the fact that you agree that it was a major cause of the 37 crash proves that I know a little something.

More to come.