How do you Tell if a Coin is Uncirculated?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by Joaquin, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. Joaquin

    Joaquin New Member

    I understand this might be a dumb question but I want to be 100% sure.

    After doing some reading, like many people have suggested me to do, I read that coins can be considered uncirculated even though they weren't bought from a mint.

    Is there a way to tell if a coin is uncirculated or do I just check if the coin is shiny.

    I read somewhere that shining a light at the coin and moving it around creates a "cartwheel" effect and that proves the coin is uncirculated is this true?

    Thank you so much!
     
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  3. LuxUnit

    LuxUnit Well-Known Member

    I just learned this previously as I am new too, but a coin that has luster will exhibit the cartwheel effect you described. If you spin a coin you should see little "spokes" of light on the coin that will circle it as you spin it. I don't believe that this always indicates circulated or not. However, I would guess that if a coin doesn't have enough luster to show the cartwheel effect then it definitely is not uncirculated condition.

    This isn't a great example but in this gif you can see me trying to show the cartwheel on one of my coins.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=1v_OAFNJPavfTOecgRNLCNLu5RvIGpWDC
     
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  4. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    The best answer is... Once it leaves the Mint for circulation to the public... It's Uncirculated! No matter how shiny or cartwheely it looks in hand. IMHO
     
  5. Burton Strauss III

    Burton Strauss III Brother can you spare a trime? Supporter

    Uncirculated as a description has fallen out of favor, in part because of the ambiguity.

    The current term is "Mint State" or MS. Means as it came from the mint, with no detectable wear.

    The cartwheel effect and "shiny" itself is one sign of MS, but especially on smaller coins can be much less visible.

    The best way to tell is to learn the highest spots of a given coin series and look carefully for wear on them.

    For example, on a Morgan dollar, the breast of the eagle is one of the highest spots and will show wear first. One learns to distinguish that from a weaker strike - if the strike is weak, then metal flowed less (but uniformly less so) into the high spots. It's knowledge gained by looking at many coins.
     
  6. atcarroll

    atcarroll Well-Known Member

    A coin is basically a piece of metal that has been stamped between dies with a lot of force, this force causes the metal to flow into the high points of the dies, the resulting flow lines are what we call "mint luster" or "cartwheel effect". Mint luster is a lot different than just being "shiny", any piece of metal can be polished to a shine, but when the flow lines wear down a coin loses its mint luster. If all the mint luster is still present, the coin is in mint state condition, if luster has been worn off, its not.
     
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  7. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    @paddyman98 , you may want to re-read that.

    What paddy meant to say is from a technical standpoint, once a coin has left, or been distributed by, the Mint for use by the general public, it is considered 'circulated'.

    As @Burton Strauss III said, numismatically, you're asking is how to tell a coin considered to be in Mint State (MS). Mint State grades run from MS-60 to MS-70. Below those grades you get into the Almost (or About) Uncirculated grades, AU-59 (never used) down through I think AU-50.

    An AU graded coin won't have the luster a Mint State coin will have. Now, what's luster? It's not a shiny coin. Shiny is caused by wear or cleaning. Luster is caused by the microscopic flow lines of the metal when struck by the dies. A shiny (circulated) coin will shine almost across the entire coin, all at once, and it will be a flat shine, sort of like a new car. A Mint State coin shines in almost a fan shaped line from one side of the coin to the other, and will appear to have a texture.

    Wear is what causes the luster to go away. Those microscopic lines get worn down, causing the light to reflect differently. The amount of wear, and the amount of remaining luster, are parts (not all) of what makes up the grade of the coin. The more luster, the less wear, the higher the grade, and vise verse.

    @LuxUnit 's link is a better .gif of luster, but here are some images showing the difference between luster and shine (MS vs AU or lower). Posting these so they stay in the thread for future generations.

    Ex. 1 - Cartwheel. The luster rotates around the coin. Notice how the light reflects differently, even on Lincoln's profile, and in his hair.

    Lincoln-Luster OBV.gif


    Ex. 2 - The coin shines on the high spots, with little or no luster, and the shine is flat and appears from all lighting angles. Look at her arm and cap. It is shiny along the entire length, and it has a flat/smooth look to it. Within the words "Panama" and "Exposition", you can still see original mint luster. These areas were protected, and the luster has remained. Even though there is 'some' luster, there is too much wear, and not nearly enough luster to put this coin anywhere near a grade in the MS range.

    IMG_8040 (Custom) (2).JPG

    Hope that also helps, even though the question was pretty much answered by the others.

    If you go to a coin shop, ask to see any coin (larger coins show luster better) in MS grade. You'll immediately see the luster, and you'll (almost) never question whether a coin in hand is mint state or not again. You could also go to a bank, and ask for a roll of small dollars (Presidential or Sacajawea), and you'll probably find an MS example or two in the roll (they don't circulate a lot). You'll probably get a good variety of grades in the roll as well.
     
  8. David Setree Rare Coins

    David Setree Rare Coins Well-Known Member

    For me, a coin that is in the same condition as it left the mint is "Mint State".

    How to tell that takes some hands on experience.

    If you love coins, you'll get that experience rather quickly.
     
  9. Paul Otts

    Paul Otts Member

    How do fingerprints enter into this discussion?
     
  10. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    Surprisingly, from what I understand, fingerprints do not affect the grade of a coin, so I guess it wouldn't change an UNC coin to a CIRC.
     
  11. Paul Otts

    Paul Otts Member

    Thank you.
     
  12. Kasia

    Kasia Got my learning hat on

    Fingerprints can affect and lower a grade. Uncirculated coins are MS60 - MS70. An uncirculated coin with a fingerprint can get above a MS65, but many coins that, without the fingerprint on it, would have gotten a MS66, likely will be held back from that. A coin above a MS60 has to have eye appeal factor into the grade, so yes, a fingerprint that makes the coin have less eye appeal can lower the grade.

    So yes they do affect the grading of the coin when it counts. It may, however not make a MS63 go down to a MS60, 61, or 62 just by virtue of it being on the coin. There are good grading books for coins, as well as other threads talking about fingerprints here.
     
  13. Kasia

    Kasia Got my learning hat on

    Add'l: it may not turn an unc to a circ grade (AU59 and below) outright though....i.e. having a fingerprint on a coin does not automatically kick it down to one that is considered circulated for grading purposes.
     
  14. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    It's not always easy to see wear from images. Trying to learn from images may help but in hand is better. It takes time and looking at many, many coins to get really good at it. To make it even more fun, even experts can't always agree.
     
  15. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    AU 58s certainly can/will
     
  16. paddyman98

    paddyman98 I'm a professional expert in specializing! Supporter

    OK.. But its just my opinion. I have read the other statements and understand the other explanations.
     
  17. Insider

    Insider Talent on loan from...

    paddyman98, posted: "The best answer is... Once it leaves the Mint for circulation to the public... It's Uncirculated! No matter how shiny or cartwheely it looks in hand. IMHO"

    paddyman98, posted: "But its just my opinion. I have read the other statements and understand the other explanations." See above for what he was commenting about in your post. Once it leaves the Mint it is "circulated;" yet it may remain in Mint State (as made) for decades. You knew this and typed too fast.

    ldhair, posted: "It's not always easy to see wear from images. Trying to learn from images may help but in hand is better. It takes time and looking at many, many coins to get really good at it. To make it even more fun, even experts can't always agree."

    The color of the surface on the high parts of a coin's design (either in an image or in hand) provides clues to it's MS/AU condition.
     
  18. Beefer518

    Beefer518 Well-Known Member

    I probably should have said it this way:

    An AU coin won't have the full luster like an MS coin would have.

    As I showed in the Panama-Pacific, and even a decently worn and even cleaned coin can still have some luster, but it won't have full luster.
     
  19. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    And a nice AU58 coin can sell for more money than a MS60 or 61 coin if it is attractive. I would rather have a really nice AU58 than some MS62s.
     
  20. baseball21

    baseball21 Well-Known Member

    58s still could. The 58 grade today is a really nice coin that has a touch of rub. Anything missing luster is usually a 55 or lower

    Agreed, a lot seem to sell more like 63s with good reason.
     
  21. TheFinn

    TheFinn Well-Known Member

    At the last show I was at, a dealer called gem AU58s "Survivors". They went to battle (circulation), but got out of the war with a flesh wound.
     
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