Could use some help with this one….. About 6 months ago I bought this 1838 Coronet Large Cent: The coin is in perhaps EF-40 condition and has no excessive wear that I can find. The "streaks" are a result of toning. I do not believe it has ever been cleaned. Last week I bought a Dansco United States Type Album, # D7070, and last night I started putting the coins in it. I got to this 1838 cent and found that the album’s slot reserved for the Coronet Large Cent was too big for my coin. I’m guessing that the slot measured 29mm or so in diameter, what I take to be normal for that series of cent. I’ve based my assumption on the diameters listed for Large Cents minted until 1840. However, the coin is more on the order of 27mm +/- in diameter, and it fit nicely into the slot reserved for the Braided Hair Cent, a coin measuring 27.5mm. What gives? In summary: -I don’t think Dansco made an error with their album. The slot sizes seem to match up correctly with what I find listed in the price/value guides. - I don’t believe my coin to be counterfeit. I purchased it from a reputable dealer who has always been square with me. - I’ve compared the cent with pictures of other 1838 Large Cents and everything seems to match up. Unfortunately I don’t own another large cent to compare it with. - I don’t believe anyone would forge a phony 1838 cent- over 6,000,000 were minted- hardly worth the return for the effort. OK, so has anyone else ever run into this or something similar? Is it possible that my cent is simply smaller in diameter (for what ever reason) than others of that year or series? I have read about that happening with other coins in the various Large Cent series. Any help would be appreciated!
Apparently Dansco did make a mistake - the correct size for 1838 large cent is 27.5 mm. What price/value guides are you looking at that say differently ?
It's a common problem for the Dansco 7070. You can cut a little strip from the clear slides and put in there to hold the coin, or you can email Dansco and they will send you some strips. The planchet sizes varied quite a bit in those years.I had the same problem. Try it, it works really well
Doug, I don't have my books with me but Coinfacts and Coinsite both say that the 1838 Large Cent is 28-29mm in diameter! If they are correct, then the coin was probably struck on a Foreign coin planchet. Also, note the thinness of the rims when most Large Cents in this series have thick rims. Frank
But think what a cent could buy back in 1838....alot! I've only been researching errors for a few months now...but I think I can call that wishful thinking. The coin looks fine and I bet Becky is right. Speedy
The book 2005 North American Coins and Prices: A Guide to U.S., Canadian and Mexican Coins (14th Edition) lists the 1816-1839 Coronet Cent as being, "28-29 mm." (page 192) The same book lists the 1840-1857 Braided Hair Cent as, "27.5 mm." (pages 192-93) The 27.5 mm size you give is a lot closer to what I've got with my 1838. Is that also the correct size for the 1840-1857? Thanks for the tip Becky. I will e-mail Dansco and see what they say.
Does anyone have the URL for Dansco? I've searched the Web and found plenty of dealers but not Dansco's home page.....
Don't you have a Red Book ? If not I would strongly suggest getting one. When I want to know the correct size and weight for any US coin the Red Book is the first source I check, And here's why - according to the Red Book the Coronet type cent was issued 1816 - 1857 - but it is broken into two sub-types, the Matron Head 1816 - 1835 and the Young Head 1835 - 1857. That's a bit different than what you list above. But yes, the Red Book lists the size for both at 27.5 mm.
Trust me, large cents vary in diameter more than any other type of US coin. Simply because the Redbook says it is 27.5mm doesn't make it so. I have almost 100 of them and they are all over the map in terms of diameter. In general, the earlier coins vary more than the later ones -- and this is in-line with what BigsWick's source. Dansco erred on the large end of the range so all of them fit. If the extra space in the Dansco bothers you either contact Dansco and they'll send you a shim, or make one yourself. Take care...mike
I forget what the year range the hole in the Dansco covers but it is at least 1816 - 1839. The problem come from the fact that in 1836 they began using steam presses and close collars to strike the cents. Once they did that the diameter of the cent became a constant 27.5 mm. But before then they were struck using screw presses and open collars that merely centered the planchet but did not restrict its outward expansion. For that reason the diameter of the large cents from 1793 - 1835 the diameter of the coin was dependant on the strength of the strike and they varied from 27 - 29 mm. Since the hole in the Dansco covers both collar types they made the hole larger so as to make sure that the older coins could actually be put into the hole. Unfortunately this means that many of the earlier cents won't fit well, and none of the post 1835 cents will fit. So you will have to use a shim for these smaller coins.
I use the 2005 North American Coins and Prices guide because it is accessible. I work in a public library, and it's the series the particular collection developer for that area opts to buy for our reference collection. We also have the "Black Book" series. The newest editions are available for in-library use only as reference materials. The previous year's editions are moved into the general collection and are available for patrons to check out once newer editions are purchased. They go to our bi-annual book sale once they are 2 years old. As a library employee I have the option to take any book before it makes it to our book sale- a perk of the job. So, I grab the coin books.....and others. I know the Red book is considered to be the "Bible" for numismatists, but I've found the North American series to be an accurate, dependable source. Thanks for all of the help with this. I'm going to contact the folks who sold me the Dansco 7070 and see if they can put me in touch with Dansco.
