Help Grading a 1904 $20 Gold Liberty Double Eagle

Hi guys,

It's been a while since I've been on this site or dealt with coins at all. However, I just came across a 1904 $20 Gold Liberty Double Eagle and am interested in what you think it would be graded by PCGS/NGC. One thing that I see - the "In", as well as the star above it, on the reverse is sort of gouged or something. I don't know if that is a die issue, since there doesn't appear to be any mark in-between the two. Anyways, what do you guys think?

 

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I think you have an problem with both of those coins as being Genuine, grade will be the least of your problem Both of these coins display almost identical flaws on what attempts to be disguised from each other. 1904 $20 Gold Liberty's are one of the most counterfeit of the $20 type coins. Check the weight of each, should be 33.40 grams. Weight is not a guarantee it is real, just a good start.

 

Wow. Great catch. This is one of my biggest fears when spending big money (at least for me) on raw coins. Thank you for giving me something else to look for.

 

He used the singular form when describing the coin he came across. They have identical flaws because from how he worded it, it should be the same coin under different lighting. Nothing is immediately jumping out that its fake at first glance. The fields appear to have the luster of a properly struck coin from the first set of photos.

AU 55ish, maybe a 58 if some of those darker areas on the face are more luster breaks than rub.

 

That's a genuine coin and I cannot see rub, but some small blemishes.
In my opinion this is a MS61 coin.
But otherwise there is no big difference in pricing in this grading range.

 

The pictures are of the same coin under different lighting. Also the coin weighed 33.46 grams.
Yeah, I know there isn't a price difference until they get into the 65/66 range, which I didn't think this coin was, I was just curious.
Thanks for your thoughts.

 

I see rub\wear on the beads of the coronet and her hair at the crown of her head and I see flatness in some of the curls of her hair.

 

What a difference lighting can make. I have zero experience with gold grading.

 

PCGS estimates a that about 1.2 million 1904 DEs have survived out of the 6.257 million minted. The majority have been graded MS62 or 63. I would give this an MS 62. The weight is listed at 33.436 grams, so yours is just a tad above that. Nice coin, thanks for sharing.

 

The mark across In - note the involvement of the star above/left as well - was a postmint hit by something thin which didn't penetrate the features highest from the surface. With a gold coin, you could duplicate that with a nail and a little pushing.

I'm in agreement with the opinion that this one has seen some slight bit of circulation. Very likely never in actual retail commerce; more likely half a dozen individual handlings when being transferred in quantity, possibly to and from Europe or the Orient.

Lovely lustrous coin, but then again even an ugly Saint is still a beautiful coin.

 

I have to apologize looked at this tread late last night and assumed these were two different coins without fully reading coin description. Thought they were different because the different lighting .. forget what I said.

 

genuine, anywhere from au58 to MS 62 IMO.

 

I'm in the AU58/MS62 club... depending on wear or no wear.

 

Genuine and I'm not seeing any true wear or breaks in luster from circulation just a lot of bag marks and rub. I'm at ms 61

 

MS61 for me as well.

 

Bill you have submitted way more to PCGS than I have so you have a better grasp at what they're gonna pick on. For my education, based on your statement above, what is going on in the circled areas? I see discoloration, which I've always been directed to see as breaks in luster. Is that not the case here.

Anyone else who wants to chime is welcome

 

In the strictest sense, probably an AU58 because of some light " bag or stacking rub". The TPGs would probably grade it ms61 because it is a good looking coin with nice surfaces that probably never truly circulated.

 

AU 61/MS 58 as I always say. The coin is a slider--could go either way, as a MS coin, or high grade AU. No reason to think it isn't genuine.

 

That's where it likely rubbed against other $20s in a bank bag. I highly doubt it ever circulated. Technically it could go 58 but likely I see PCGS calling it a 61. I've submitted a lot of coins but surprisingly I've never sent a $20. I seldom buy them not that I don't like them I just tend to focus more on early silver

 

Thanks Bill, 'perciate it.