Do ancient coins have values?

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by tulipone, Dec 20, 2015.

  1. tulipone

    tulipone Well-Known Member

    Title says it all really. I'm wondering if you had a choice between bronze one, a silver one or a gold one or if there are ways of understanding the value of a coin in some other way. Not seen a 1, 2 or 3 denarius for example.
     
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  3. Sallent

    Sallent Live long and prosper

    RR denarii had an X as a mark of value...whatever that represented. Let the experts chime in.
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2015
  4. IdesOfMarch01

    IdesOfMarch01 Well-Known Member

    Quick answer (Roman coins):

    Initially the copper as (roughly meaning "unit") was the basic unit of money, and the silver denarius was worth 10 asses (hence the Roman numeral X on some of these coins). Later the denarius was re-tariffed (revalued) to 16 asses to make the following system easier:

    1 gold aureus = 25 silver denarii = 100 bronze sestertii = 400 copper asses.

    1 silver denarius = 4 bronze sestertii = 16 copper asses.

    1 bronze sestertius = 2 AE dupondii = 4 copper asses.

    There are other, lesser used denominations (e.g, semis) as well.
     
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  5. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist

    Different times also have different indicators. I can't remember off the top of my head which denomination it is, but a radiate bust meant the coin was worth more than just a laureate bust coin of the same size (this may be a theory and not confirmed - I just can't remember).
     
  6. IdesOfMarch01

    IdesOfMarch01 Well-Known Member

    Most Roman dupondii have radiate busts on the obverse to distinguish them from asses. These two denominations could sometimes be fairly close in size and weight since the minting process wasn't necessarily concerned about precision weights on lower denomination coins.
     
  7. Markus1959

    Markus1959 Well-Known Member

    I don't know too much about this but here's a chart - have at it. And what did they actually buy with these coins?

    [​IMG]
     
  8. TIF

    TIF Always learning.

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  9. stevex6

    stevex6 Random Mayhem

    Ahaha, TIF => Ummmm, I like to refer to him as "MentorDoug" ...

    Yah => Who's-your-Daddy-Dougie gets a bit weird, yes?



    => do the Dougie!!
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2015
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  10. dltsrq

    dltsrq Grumpy Old Man

    The radiate crown was sometimes used to signify a "double" denomination: on the dupondius (valued at 2 asses) from Nero onward, on the antoninianus (valued at 2 denarii) from Caracalla onward, and on the double-sestertius introduced by Decius. On coins featuring an empress, double value was signified by resting the obverse bust on a crescent.
     
  11. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    Never as any question about ancient coins as if they were one thing. The answer is usually going to be some did, some did not. You can't even treat all Greek or all Romans as one. Ancients covered a period of over a thousand years or roughly half of all time that coins were made so you can no more expect a simple answer than if you asked about 'World' coins. After the earliest period, Rome rarely used a denomination mark other than the radiate crown to mean twice the other one. There are exceptions where they put a I or II on a coin to separate asses from dupondii for example but finding one of these might take some looking compared to finding a thousand examples that do not.
     
  12. rrdenarius

    rrdenarius non omnibus dormio

    The coins I like best, Roman Republic, started in about 290 BC and ended during the time of Julius Caesar / Octavian somewhere between 49 BC when Julius Caesar crossed the Rubicon and 27 BC when Octavian took the name and eventually title of Augustus.
    In their early history, Romans were subsistence farmers who made ends meet by occasionally raiding others. They issued no coins and traded by barter. Their first money system was based on livestock and eventually bronze. One pound of bronze (300 grams plus or minus depending on which town) equaled 1 As. They issued fractions and multiples:
    X = Decussis = 10 Asses - rare today
    V = Quincussis = 5 Asses
    III = Tressis = 3 Asses
    II = Dupondius = 2 Asses
    I = As = 12 unciae = 300 oz. bronze
    S = Semis = 6 unciae
    4 dots = Triens = 4 unciae
    3 dots = Quadrans = 3 unciae
    2 dots = Sextans = 2 unciae
    1 dot = Uncia
    Sigma = Semiuncia, or less than uncia

    The earliest Roman silver coins were minted starting about the same time as the bronze coins and did not have marks of value. Their weights matched Greek coins.

    About 211 BC, Rome was fighting the second Punic was and was short of bronze for coins. This cause the weight of bronze coins to drop significantly. They switched to silver based coins. They issued three main coins:
    • Denarius with a mark of value = X. It was worth 10 asses.
    • Quinarius with a mark of value = V. It was worth 5 asses.
    • Sestertius with a mark of value - IIS. It was worth 2.5 asses. Note that S = Semis or half an as.
    In 211 BC a Roman soldier was paid 3 asses per day.
    The denarius was equal 10 asses until 141 BC when it was revalued to 16 asses and had a mark of value = XVI. It held that ratio into Imperial times. The symbol switched from XVI to a * and eventually back to X even though it was worth 16 asses.

    I will copy a post from a couple of months ago on what you could buy. Doug is right, there is no way to compare what you could buy then to now.

    I have seen the subject of buying power of ancient coins discussed several times. I have a book with Selections from the Numismatist on Ancient and Medieval Coins. It has an article from 1916 on the subject of prices. Edward Newell quoted Pliny (a Roman historian) that in 250 BC, one As, about 300 grams of bronze, would buy one of the following:
    a modius (18.5 quarts) of wheat
    a measure of wine
    10 pounds of oil
    12 pounds of meat
    30 pounds of dry figs
    When I googled the following phrase "The purchasing value of coins of the classic period Edward Newell" I found the article on line at:
    http://www.mocavo.com/The-Numismatist-Volume-Xxix/887035/220
    I am sure I have a more recent book, but alas it is buried somewhere in my treasures room.
     
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  13. tulipone

    tulipone Well-Known Member

    I am not sure that I could have had a more comprehensive answer and I thank you all.

    I'm very aware of how little I know about ancients and wondering if anyone can recommend a primer book? I have gone in and looked around on Dougs website and found it very informative but like to have a book to add notes and bookmark items. Any thoughts?
     
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  14. FitzNigel

    FitzNigel Medievalist

    I mentioned recently in another post Wayne G Sayles' Collecting Ancient Coins vol. I. It's a really basic introduction for beginners, and later volumes provided that same basic introduction to more specific areas of ancients (such as Greek or Roman). That would be my start, and then you can find the more specific books for the areas that interest you later
     
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  15. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    The Sayles book is a series. I like the fact that they are not catalogs but explain the coins that the show. If you only will be collecting Roman, start with volume 3. If you plan to collect everything, there is nothing wrong with #1 as a start but you do need to move on into the others.

    You said you looked at my site. Did you read my book reviews? I keep intending to add more to that page but few people have read all the ones covered there now so I keep putting that off.
    http://www.forumancientcoins.com/dougsmith/book.html
     
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