Coin Grading Questions: Color

I have some questions about color in grading. By color I mean red, red brown, brown and toning.

First question. When does a copper coin need to be a certain color to qualify for that grade? For instance, do copper coins need to be red to be MS-65?

Second question. Can high mint state graded coins (MS 68-70) have toning?

 

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I don't see why not, for most 20th century silver, you really need toning to get MS68 grades. I know copper is different and that bright red is rewarded, but I recall this crazy rainbow toned SMS Lincoln that graded MS67* BN.

 

So i’m guessing that toning automatically eliminates red and red brown.Hope that i’m not intruding!Thats a beautiful color!!!

 

WOW! My birth year TOO!!

 

Grading and color are two different entities. There are low grade Red coins and high grade brown and vice versa. Toned coins are automatically listed as brown. But, this designation is only used with copper coins, maybe bronze. Someone correct me on that please. There was a handy chart someone shared on here showing the spectrum of color on cents. I will say though that it is much tougher to get a red designation. Also, I think all the TPGs only guarantee color for a certain length of time.

I have certainly seen high graded toned coins.

 

Here is a pair of 86's both would grade at Red.

 

Lovely essence.....

 

And it ain't in a can. I applaud it.

 

I suspect there may be such a chart made for golden colored dollars someday.

 

Is it possible for an MS-70 copper coin to be brown or red brown?

 

Possible yes
Likely no

 

Not likely, it is rare that a coin in RB or BN gets graded above a RD coin in the same condition.

 

I was reading the 7th edition of "The Official ANA Grading Standards" and it says this about MS-66 copper coins:

"If copper, the coin displays original or lightly toned color"
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It also says there is a debate on whether or not original RD color is necessary to qualify for MS-65.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

 

No. Mint State and Proof copper coins are graded on two levels. First there is the wear (or lack there of) grade. Then there is the color grade. A copper coin can be Red and Brown ( R&B) or Brown and still be high grade. Dr. Sheldon introduced the concept that an MS-60 coin is a piece that has "gone quite a ways from its original color," but that concept is now not valid. In fact modern grading for the Mint State grades has left about all Sheldon had to say in his book.

I don't have any large cents in Red, but I do have an R&B piece that is mostly Red to illustrate the point.

This coin is graded MS-65, R&B, CAC.



This one is graded MS-65, Brown.



Now, to complicate things a little further, I used to see better date Indian Cents that were all "red," but the grading services called them "R&B." Why? They had been dipped to make them red. I could tell that the had been dipped because the red was too muted to be original. I guess that was what is called "net grading."

Toning is a natural occurrence which happens over time. It is the result of the atmosphere in which the coin is stored. Most all copper and silver coins will tone over time. Gold usually mellows out. It might have spots or reddish coloring, but that is from the copper in the alloy, not the gold which is quite inert.

As it is with copper, silver coins can be toned. Unlike the copper, the graders do assign color to silver coins, although dealers and auction houses do.

This 1831 quarter is graded AU-58. It's been dipped, but has not changed color in about 30 years. I have had the "purist collectors" tell me they hate this coin because it's lost its "character." Each to their own.



This fully toned 1861-O half dollar is graded MS-64 CAC.



I hope that this has cleared up some of your questions.

 

Not at all. Many red copper coins are toned, some colorful. Red brown comes with some spectacular toning.
Red




Red Brown