Can the goverment take your gold and silver coins and bullion from you?

Sorry to say but the answer is YES! I have doing some research for my coin club and found out that the goverment can take your gold and silver coins. Some people think they are exempt because they are numismatic items under regulation 26 CFR 1.6045-1 on page 647-648 of the Federal Register, Vol. 49, No.3 of 1/5/1984. The kicker is this regulation was NEVER PASSED! The law does not exist. The bottom line is that your gold coins and silver dollars do not legally qualify as numismatic coins. IRS regulation (26 CFR 1.6045-1) does not include anything about numismatic coins. And as far as reporting purchases of gold or silver to the goverment must be reported under Revenue Procedure 92-103, lots of 25 or more of Krugerrands, Maple Leaves, or Mexican Onzas, kilo gold bars, 100 ounce gold bars, 1,000 ounce silver bars, $5,000 face value of 90% silver coins, 50 ounce of platinum, and 100 ounce of palladium. So when a coin dealer tells you that the goverment can't take your gold or silver because its a numismatic item that is not true. I do not think this would ever happen but it could if the goverment wanted to. I know I will get some bad replies for other coin talk forum members on this and if anyone out there can find the goverment statuts that prove me wrong I will be very happy and would like to know of them. Jim

 

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Doesn't seem so far fetched. Wasn't it illegal to own gold starting in 1933-?
Can someone tell me about that? I remember my dad saying, his father had hid gold coins.

edit:
I researched it real quick.
"The Executive Order 6102 made it illegal for anyone to own more than $100 worth
of gold. Citizens had to turn in their gold in exchange for paper money. The
gold coins were melted down into bars by the U.S. Treasury department. This was
done to keep the U.S. dollar afloat and avoid panic in the overseas market. The
tactic worked.
"

 

This is just like the little known fact that usually the one with the biggest and most guns wins. And if you really think that is a fact check what happened in Vietnam.

 

kind of sounds like what is going on today. Maybe history does repeat. Jim

 

You can read the text of 26 CFR 1.6045-1 here:

It's entitled "Returns of information of brokers and barter exchanges" and doesn't talk about takings of property at all nor about gold, nor about the 1933 executive orders.

Under the Constitution and the theory of eminent domain, the U.S. Government can, in fact, take silver and gold even if you have clear legal title. However, they must pay you just compensation for doing so. A CFR need not have to "pass" in order to have legal effect, but they must pass constitutional muster.

Public law 93-373 repealed the prohibitions on purchasing, holding, selling, or otherwise dealing in gold in the United States or abroad, including the 1933 Executive Orders.

Can and do governments (including the U.S. government) commit illegal acts? Of course. So can they take your gold and silver? Yes. But the argument presented here is simply legal gibberish.

 

The government can do virtually anything it wants.

The better question, IMO, is WILL they.

I don't think so -- in fact, I'm betting on it.

 

Of course they can. Or at least they can pass a law at any time that requires you to hand them over. The fact that back in 1934 they modified the original Presidential order to allow collectors to keep "rare and unusual gold coins of recognized value to collectors", does not mean that they have to include that kind of language in any new legislation. If they were to pass a law or make another Presidential order today that said to turn over ALL gold or silver coins that would overturn the previous ruling that allowed you to keep them. People just don't seem to understand that the laws and situations that currently exist can always be changed by a law passed in the future. This "blindness" surprises me because can't they see that in 1932 they could own all the gold they wanted to, then in 1934 that couldn't? All it took was the issuing of a new Presidential order that changed the status quo. The same thing could happen tomorrow.

 

Possibilities and probabilities, it is possible, but not probable. I worry about the possibility of confiscation about as much as a giant meteor strike. If "they" are smart they will do more subtle things, like an intangibles tax on bullion, a windfall profit tax on gains, or a patriotic call to turn in metals to save the country, with bounties for those that turn in their neighbors with hoards.

 

If they use the Patriot act they can take anything!!
***but the patriot act is still in the courts so it may not apply.

But 100% sure that gold can just be take from you with out reason.
one reason is if it was used as an in illegal act. like drug money laundering. then anything like gold/car and homes land and anything involved with your crime can be taken .
:kewl:

 

They can have my gold when they pry it from my cold, dead hands!

 

One thing to consider is scope. Back in 1933 private US gold was a large percentage of national wealth. Therefor, consfiscation of gold helped the Federal government stabilize to a large extent.

Today, the percentage of gold to total US debt or wealth is miniscule. I simply do not see how much it would even help the Fed government to do this. If it really will not help, why would they bother? More likely would be a national asset tax on all assets you own I would think.

Chris

 

Try your constitutional argument while you are staring up an M-16 and see if it does any good.

OTOH trying to say that something in 1933 can effect matters or not today is immaterial, as it doesn't factor current conditions or how rational and irrational people and governments will act. One factor that is a constant is that no one has accurately predicted with certainty what will happen when calamities strike. The TeeVee psychics on CNN and Fox News have been trying for years.

 

Not likely. The real confiscation is through inflation. Confiscation is always a voluntary recall. They never search "house to house." The silver market is too small to matter to the budget of the U.S. There is no reason why they would confiscate now, since they are minting and selling American Silver Eagle coins. Also, many congressmen own silver, because they know what their other congressmen are doing to the money. Congressmen don't want to make criminals of themselves

 

They can arrange that.

 

Uh, oh. Someone's gonna be wearing an "Edgar Suit"......

 

Is this better

 

Time for as safety deposit in Canada or a deep hole somewhere in the countryside.
If anyone knows what the policy on U.S. safety deposit boxes should a bank close please comment.

 

If a bank closes, there is no affect on ownership of SDB. No creditor can take a lean on its contents, as the bank never had any legal interest in them. Even if the owner does not pay rent, by escheat laws in the state the bank never takes ownership, the state does and tries to find the owner.

The only problem a bank closure should have to a SDB holder would be access to their material. I am sure the FDIC would arrange for such access.

Edit: Btw, be careful if you bury it in a hole somewhere. This is the source of most ancient coins, the owner buried them for safe keeping and never reclaimed them. Make sure someone you trust knows exactly where they are unless you are intending them to be dug up 2000 years from now. Still, with the right protection not a bad idea. I have heard others say dif a deep hole, and then shallowly bury a bunch of garbage metal to throw metal detectorists off the track. The hope is they start digging up rusted iron and stop pursuing the signal. I would think a large pile of old nails would work well, since the continued signal could be explained by a large container of nails throughout the soil.

Another thought is if a guy cut a hole through his basement floor, buried them there, and recemented the hole, preferably all of this under carpet, it would be pretty hard for someone to locate and bust up the concrete to get to them.

 

Also the laws passed in 1933 gave the government full ownership of everything you own. Any land, property, car, or PMs you own is really property of the federal government and they can confiscate it anytime they want. Basically, they are just letting you hold it even though you paid for it. If you don't belive me, look it up.

 

Well heck. If they own everything of mine then they can pay for it........