California Gold... are these real??

I have these four California gold coins, late 1840s-1850's but Im not sure if they are authentic or not? Does anyone know anything about these and whether or not they are real or reproductions? I got these from my grandmother some years back. Thanks for the help guys and gals.

 

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These are the later reproductions, you can see the green corrosion on the back, if these were gold there wouldn't be any corrosion.

 

Well Im not terribly sure about that, my grandmother had these sitting on a little piece of yellow foam in a plastic snap box. So the coins werent just laying in the container but on that foam instead. When I go them I immediately took them off the foam. Im fearful that the ones with the bears facing right arent real but the other two Im not sure about.

 

yes, they are real.
Really tokens.

Later productions.
Not circulating coins.

Hint: 1) Crud, would not normally happen to real gold;
2) no $ denomination, therfore, not coinage;
3) Eureka = later production (I believe, with a possible exception);
4) I was always told that those marked 'California Gold' were jewelers pieces.

 

I don't believe they are real, any of them.

 

In contrast to what others have said, don't let the green stuff fool you. The ones with green stuff on them are most likely real and the top right one isn't.

Dip the green ones in Tarn-X and it will remove the green stuff right before your eyes and the coins will look awesome. :thumb:

You can look on Mike Locke's site to see if he has these listed (I know 2 are but not sure about the other two).

http://www.calgoldcoin.com/

Ribbit

 

Interesting pieces. As to whether or not they're authentic, I'll leave that to the real experts......

 

If you are talking about 24K gold, then you are correct but coins are not 24K so the other metals in the mix, like COPPER, will corrode so gold coins CAN corrode and have green on them.

Ribbit

Ps: Look at the green on these REAL ones:

http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item.php?Sale_No=1100&Lot_No=28531

 

Thats PVC not verdigris.

 

I believe that there was never a California fractional piece with a bear on it. That would make three of the four later date pieces and not real. The fourth (bottom right) looks far to "nice" to be real.\

So in my opinion, none of them were minted anywhere near the date on the obverse, and likely they are modern "tokens".

However, I'm anything but a collector much less an expert on these little babies, so all of the above are just my observations....Mike

 

I'd say modern (1940's-1950's) tokens. The design detail isn't even remotely close to the pieces linked to an Heritage. The tokens detail is simple outlines with no filling, where as the real coins are solidly filled in the detail areas, primarily in the leaves on the reverses. Also, the lettering and number fonts don't match.
Guy~

 

Just in case, when I say real I mean they are gold and not the plated fake ones. When they were minted is without a doubt well after the dates on the coins, which is the case with many, if not most, Cal Gold Tokens.

So, to reduce the confusion, the bottom right one is a REAL Cal Gold Token or Charm, depending on how you want to call it, but it is not a Cal Gold Fractional, since it is missing the denomination.

As to the bears, there are REAL Cal Gold Tokens that have the bear but I'm not certain if any of the true Cal Gold Fractionals did.

Ribbit

 

I'm pretty sure all the bear pieces are later reproduction tokens .
rzage

 

Here's a good link to Bear tokens .
http://www.calgoldcoin.com/bear2d.htm

rzage

 

Pretty good observations too .
rzage:hatch::hammer:

 

None are real.

• California fractionals started in 1852.* This eliminates the 1850 coin.
• California fractionals are divided into three time periods, imaginitively called Period One (1852-1857), Two (1858-1882), and Three (1883 on).
• None of the Period One pieces had an Indian. All had Liberty a la $20 Liberty except two :
  • BG 220 (Defiant Eagle a la Feuchtwanger)
  • BG 453 (Arms of California, a seated, helmeted female)

Since your coins are all dated before 1858 and they have Indians, they cannot be real.



* Territorials started in 1849, but not fractionals. Don't confuse the two.

 

Great PI work 900! :thumb:

 

Here's one way to make sense of it all. Ask yourself "Why would anyone make such tiny coins ?"

The answer is they needed small change. At the time of the California Gold Rush, there was no US Mint west of New Orleans, so there were very few coins. With thousands of people pouring in, San Francisco's population exploded. The lack of coins hampered commerce, so they traded gold dust and small nuggets.

It's easy to see why that was a clunky way of doing things. Something had to give.

By 1852, jewelers took matters into their own hands and began making their own small coins (25c, 50c, and $1). All of the Period One pieces (1852-1857), without exception, bore a denomination.

In 1854, the San Francisco Mint opened, co-existing with the various assay offices and jewelers for a while. By the end of 1857, the Mint had cranked out enough small change to meet business demand. There was no need for private gold fractionals. They were obsolete, thus bringing an end to Period One coinage.

 

PERIOD TWO FRACTIONAL COINAGE

From the earliest days of the Gold Rush California was, of course, world famous. Originally, many came for the Gold Rush, but by 1858 many were coming for tourism and curiousity.

The California Fractional coins were a unique and distinctive part of "The California Experience", even though they were obsolete - so the jewelers kept on making coins - for souvenirs. NOT for circulation. And so begins Period Two coinage (1858-1882).

That is THE critical thing to understand about Period Two coins; they were NOT intended for circulation. They were souvenirs and jewelry. For this reason, there are many Mint State, even Proof Like, specimens around.

For this same reason, there many damaged bezel-mounted pieces around. Be careful !!!

Private minting is tantamount to counterfeiting. Through 1857, the Mint tolerated the private mints and jewelers because they provided a valuable service. But by 1858, they were obsolete.

Before long, the Secret Service began to crack down on the privates, and for good reason - they had always been inferior quality and rarely, if ever, contained the proper amount of gold. They always traded at a discount in banks back East.

That is why the privates removed the denomination. They could keep making trinkets and claim they weren't money !

But since many of them had a visage of Liberty similar to the Type 1 Gold Dollar, Uncle Sam considered them illegal anyway.

That is why they started putting Indians on them ! Again, Uncle Sam was unimpressed.

Then, they started back-dating them to pre-1858 so even new coins would look like Period One coins, when private minting was tolerated ! Uncle Sam didn't fall for that one, either.

Anyway, it's a long and complex story. Well worth the read. Try "California Pioneer Fractional Gold" (Breen / Gillio)

 

Not sure if the california gold charms that was sold by heritage really contain gold, 3 of them together only sold for $80, if they really contain gold, shouldn't it sell much much more? here are more of them http://coins.ha.com/common/auction/...d+Charms&hdnSearch=true&chkSupplies=1&stage=1