British Indian vs British coins

Discussion in 'World Coins' started by gtele2000, Jul 18, 2010.

  1. gtele2000

    gtele2000 New Member

    Hello,

    I am new to numismatics and am interested in British Indian as well as UK coins. I have noticed that Brit. Indian coins were minted in .917 silver while British coins of the same time period (i.e. 1900) were minted in .925. Why the discrepancy? I realize the difference is small, but the devil is in the details as they say. Any input would be appreciated. Thank you.

    M
     
  2. Avatar

    Guest User Guest



    to hide this ad.
  3. willieboyd2

    willieboyd2 First Class Poster

    That is an interesting question and it can be generalized to why did different
    countries use different silver percentages during the silver coin era.

    The United States used 90%, Mexico 90.27%, Canada 80%, etc.

    :)
     
  4. gtele2000

    gtele2000 New Member

    You are correct. This is particularly interesting since the rulers of India and the UK were one and the same at the time. One would think that the coins of the realm would be of a standard fineness...
     
  5. GDJMSP

    GDJMSP Numismatist Moderator

    It was becauae they did not want the Indian coinage circulating in Great Britain.
     
  6. gtele2000

    gtele2000 New Member

    Thanks for the reply. Were the British concerned about upsetting the balance of trade? Please elaborate.
     
  7. bgarg

    bgarg Senior Member

    A very interesting observation and the answer is even more interesting. As you said the devil is in detail which is a bit dry and lengthy. If you are still interested in finding as how/why British decided on 0.917 purity for Indian coins, I can type in the details later this evening.

    Regards,
    Ballabh Garg
     
  8. gtele2000

    gtele2000 New Member


    Most definitely! I will appreciate your insight.
     
  9. dctjr80

    dctjr80 Senior Member

    The only metal composition that ever made me curious is why my Columbia 10 Centavos 1897 is .666 Silver which is also minted right on the coin? LOL
     
  10. spock1k

    spock1k King of Hearts

    there is nothing great about britain ;)
     
  11. bgarg

    bgarg Senior Member

    Indian currency system was pretty complicated before British period. To understand the currency issue in early 19th century, knowing few historical details about existing currencies is essential.

    The economic system in India was founded by famous mogul emperor Akbar and his unit of currency was gold mohur and silver rupee. For the first time, he introduced the rupee coin in Indian region. He decided that both, the mohur and the rupee will be of identical weight, i.e. 175 grains. During his period, the coins were supposed to be minted without any alloy.

    During entire mogul period (for roughly 300 years), the right to mint coinage was exercised with great sense of responsibility. None of the mogul emperor debased their coinage and throughout the period of empire everybody adhered to the standard weight of 175 grains.
    (Few examples of rupee weights:
    Akbar - Rupee of Lahore - 175.0 grains
    - Rupee of Agra - 174.0 grains
    Jahangir - Rupee of Agra - 174.6 grains
    - Rupee of Allahabad - 173.6 grains
    Shah Jahan - Rupee of Agra - 175.0 grains
    - Rupee of Delhi - 175.0 grains
    Alamgir - Rupee of Delhi - 174.8 grains
    - Murshidabad - 175.9 grains
    Shah Alam - Various mints - 174.0 – 175.8 grains)

    During Shah Alam’s period (around 1770), the mogul empire started disrupting. As the mogul empire was falling, the local rulers in various states started using imperial mint centers as factories to mint their own coins. During this time, the right to coinage which was exercised so religiously before, started being abused. Everywhere the mints were kept in full swing and soon the country was filled with diverse coins(weight and purity). Individual states proceeded to debase their coinage to a different degree without changing the denomination. This caused severe trade issues as there was no longer any “imperial currency”. Every state had its own local currency which was good only in its own states and not acceptable by any neighboring states (unless one goes through a money exchanger and converts one local currency into another).

    By this time, the English East India Company, who succeeded to the empire of Moguls in India, decided that the region must have uniform good money. A uniform currency which can be used in all parts of India without worrying about local conversion rates.

    The currency reform was proposed by the Directors of the Company in their famous dispatch, dated April 25, 1806, to the authorities administering their territories in India. In this historic document they mentioned:—

    "21. ......... that silver should be the universal money of account (in India), and that all ...... accounts should be kept in the same denominations of rupees, annas and pice.......”
    The rupee was not, however, to be the same as that of the Moghul Emperors in weight and fineness. The proposal was that
    "9. ......the new rupee ...... be of the gross weight of—
    Troy grains ... 180
    Deduct one-twelfth alloy ... 15
    And contain of fine silver troy grains. 165"

    This was the proposals put forth by the Court of Directors for the reform of Indian currency.

    The choice of a rupee weighing 180 grains troy and containing 165 grains pure silver as the unit for the future currency system of India was a well-reasoned choice.

    The primary reason for selecting this particular weight for the rupee seems to have been the desire to make it as little of a departure as possible from the existing practice. It was believed that 180, or rather 179.5511, grains was the standard weight of the rupee coin originally issued from the Mogul Mints, so that the adoption of it was really a restoration of the old unit and not the introduction of a new one.

    Another advantage claimed in favor of a unit of 180 grains was that such a unit of currency would again become what it had ceased to be, the unit of weight also (hence a rupee coin can be used as weight measure).

    In addition to reasons for fixing the weight of rupee coin, the proposal to make it a 165 grains fine had its justification too.

    The main consideration in selecting 165 grains as the standard of fineness was to cause the least possible disturbance in existing arrangements. The proposed standard of fineness was not very different from existing silver coins recognized by the different governments in India as the principal units of their currency.

    Silver Coins recognized as Principal Units and their Fineness
    Coin Purity in grains
    Surat Rupee 164.74
    Arcot Rupee 166.47
    Sicca Rupee 175.92
    Farrukhabad 166.13
    Benaras Rupee 169.25

    Looking at data above, one can notice that with the exception of Sicca rupee, the proposed standard of fineness agreed closely with other rupees. This confirmed that the proposed fineness will not have any adoption issue by the general public.

    Another consideration that seemed to have prevailed upon the Court of Directors in selecting 165 grains as the standard of fineness was the opinion of the British Committee on Mint and Coinage, appointed in 1803. “One-twelfth alloy and eleven-twelfths fine is by a variety of extensive experiments proved to be the best proportion, or at least as good as any which could have been chosen." This standard, so authoritatively upheld, the court desired to incorporate this for new Indian currency and decided to make the rupee eleven-twelfths fine. This will also make the rupee 165 grains pure.

    By an Act of the Imperial Government (XVII of 1835) a common currency was introduced for entire India. The new monetary reform stated that "a Rupee weighing 180 grains and containing 165 grains fine as the common currency and sole legal tender throughout the country".

    So, that’s how the purity of British Indian coins was fixed at

    165 / 180 = 0.916666.

    All British silver coins minted since 1835 are based on these standards.

    Regards,
    Ballabh Garg
     
  12. jello

    jello Not Expert★NormL®

    16 half crown obv.jpg 16 half crown.jpg 2944.jpg 2943.jpg
    Here both British & Mexico.
    Mexico is the only coin with its purity marked on it
    [​IMG]
     
  13. De Orc

    De Orc Well-Known Member

    That was very informative Ballabh, Thank you very much :hail:
     
  14. spock1k

    spock1k King of Hearts

    although akbar was great he can hardly be credited for the rupee unfortunately

    India is one of the earliest issuers of coins in the world (circa 6th century BC), along with the Chinese wen and Lydian staters. The origin of the word "rupee" is found in the word rūp or rūpā, which means "silver" in many Indo-Aryan languages such as Hindi. The Sanskrit word rupyakam (Devanagari:रूप्यकम्) means coin of silver. The derivative word Rūpaya was used to denote the coin introduced by Sher Shah Suri during his reign from 1540 to 1545 CE. The original Rūpaya was a silver coin weighing 175 grains troy (about 11.34 grams). The coin has been used since then, even during the times of British India. Formerly the rupee was divided into 16 annas, 64 paise, or 192 pies. In Arabia and East Africa the British India rupee was current at various times, including the paisa and was used as far south as Natal. In Mozambique the British India rupees were overstamped, and in Kenya the British East Africa company minted the rupee and its fractions as well as pice. It was maintained as the florin, using the same standard, until 1920. In Somalia the Italian colonial authority minted 'Rupia' to the exact same standard, and called the paisa 'besa'. Early 19th century E.I.C. rupees were used in Australia for a limited period. Decimalisation occurred in Ceylon (Sri Lanka) in 1872, India in 1957 and in Pakistan in 1961.
     
  15. gtele2000

    gtele2000 New Member

    Thanks, Mr. Garg!
     
  16. bgarg

    bgarg Senior Member

    Welcome back!

    I was merely stating a historical fact that Akbar was the first emperor who minted a coin with standard weight and the word "rupaya" on it, giving it a legal tender status. You can literally take this "rupaya" coin to any part of India and use it in market.

    Before this "rupaya" coin was introduced, the silver coins during Sher Shah suri's period were still called "tankas" and were good only in northern part of India. If one takes those to southern India for trade, they were required to exchange tankas into pagodas before any trade.

    Regards,
    Ballabh Garg
     
  17. spock1k

    spock1k King of Hearts

    Thanks for the welcome Ballabh.

    Sher shah was the first according to the historians. read any economic paper of the recent weeks in india when they came out with the new symbol. it is detailed in length there. sher shah suri did not rule in southern india where as akbar had mints there. even the east india company minted coins in pagodas 2 centuries later so the rupee was not paramount even then.


    you are under a popular misconception RBI in fact has clarified it on their website as well. here is an excerpt

    Technically, the Mughal period in India commenced in 1526 AD when Babur defeated Ibrahim Lodhi, the Sultan of Delhi and ended in 1857 AD when the British deposed and exiled Bahadur Shah Zafar, the last Mughal Emperor after the great uprising. The later emperors after Shah Alam II were little more than figureheads.

    The most significant monetary contribution of the Mughals was to bring about uniformity and consolidation of the system of coinage throughout the Empire. The system lasted long after the Mughal Empire was effectively no more. The system of tri-metalism which came to characterise Mughal coinage was largely the creation, not of the Mughals but of Sher Shah Suri (1540 to 1545 AD), an Afghan, who ruled for a brief time in Delhi. Sher Shah issued a coin of silver which was termed the Rupiya. This weighed 178 grains and was the precursor of the modern rupee. It remained largely unchanged till the early 20th Century. Together with the silver Rupiya were issued gold coins called the Mohur weighing 169 grains and copper coins called Dam

    you can read the rest here

    http://www.rbi.org.in/currency/museum/c-mogul.html
     
Draft saved Draft deleted

Share This Page