Athena and Owl Tetradrachm for review

Attica, Athens, c. 454-404 BC. AR Tetradrachm (27mm, 17.17g, 6h). Helmeted head of Athena r. R/ Owl standing r., head facing; olive sprig behind; all within incuse square. Kroll 8; SNG Copenhagen 31; HGC 4, 1597. Good VF

I really like this coin. It has so much character to it. Thanks for thoughts.

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Looks great to me.


Attica, Athens (353 - 294 B.C)
AR Tetradrachm
O: Helmeted head of Athena right. Pi Style 3
R: AΘE Owl standing right, head facing, olive sprig and crescent to left; all within incuse square.
16.59g
21 mm
Kroll -; HGC 4, 1599

Ex. Numismatik-Naumann, Auction 52, Lot 126

 

I like this coin but its through London coins on Vcoin. I have tried for days to set up an account and every-time it sends a link I never get it to finish my set up. I can not seem to get this situation resolved. I have been just finding the shop on line at their on line store. London Coins I can not find but through Vcoins. Plus everything I read about them is they are extremely slow on shipping and never return emails. So I may look around a bit more.

 

Here's a link to London Coins on VCoins:

https://www.vcoins.com/en/stores/london_ancient_coins-89/ancient-coins/Default.aspx?

I've ordered coins from them in the past, and shipping can be slow, especially if sent by registered mail. If you opt for another carrier, if available, shipping time could be much shorter, but much more expensive as well.

That's a nice looking owl, a standardized classic owl made after 440 BC, with really nice centering.

It was many years ago when I set up my account with VCoins, so I don't what the glitch is for you. You could contact London Coins and see if they can send you a Paypal invoice, but keep in mind that some sellers charge a fee for using Paypal.

Also, since the coin is priced in British pounds, when using Paypal be sure to select the option for your bank to determine the exchange rate. Paypal's exchange rate is pretty bad. Your bank/credit card company will give you a much more favorable rate.

 

Looks nice to me, but my knowledge is pretty rudimentary. I do know full crest + nose is coveted by some. But ya, those kind of specimens really cost.

 

I know some can be really expensive. I am looking at the 4 to 500 dollar range.

 

One question, Why are so many of these coins in such good over all condition? They are even older than the Roman coins I look at. But yet many of these look like they were struck last week. Thanks

 

I'm not an expert in this area. The following is my theory, based on my limited knowledge.
Most ancient persons did not use paper money. Therefore, in ancient times, most money was gold coins, silver coins, and bronze coins. Because there were few banks in ancient times (although some wealthy persons had access to banks at certain times and places), many persons hoarded gold coins, silver coins, and even bronze coins. A person would put their coins into jars, and bury the jars somewhere under their house or yard, and not tell anyone where their coins were buried.
Often, these coins were relatively new, and therefore the coins were almost uncirculated, or in extremely fine condition. Then, the person would die, and the forgotten coins would stay in the ground for thousands of years. If the ground, where the coins were buried, stayed relatively dry, then this would be a pretty good environment, for preserving the coins. Or, the jar may become encased in mud, which may also be a good environment, for preserving the coins.
Gold coins are usually unaffected by their environment, because gold doesn't react much with various chemicals. Silver coins usually become tarnished, and then the tarnish protects the silver coins from further deterioration, unless the silver coins are in sea/salt water. Bronze coins develop a patina, which often protects the bronze coins from further deterioration.
Often, ancient silver coins and bronze coins, after they are found, are cleaned with chemicals, so that the tarnish or patina is removed, resulting in shiny silver coins or shiny bronze coins. Then, the ancient coins often sit in collectors' coin cases or coin cabinets, and eventually develop "cabinet toning" or "cabinet patina".
Also, if I remember correctly, a huge hoard of Athena tetradrachms was discovered 10 years ago or so. That huge hoard has slowly been sold, in various auctions, and may still be in the process of being sold.

 

Sand said it : these owls come from hoards. Ancient misers carefully selected the best coins they could find for their own secret piggy bank (accumulation hoards), or sometimes a stock of coins fresh from the mint was immediately hoarded. Usually there are lots of die-links in this kind of hoard.

 

thanks that makes sense

 

Is the shadow outline a double strike if not what would cause this shadow affect.

 

Yes, the die shifted during the striking, causing a slight doubling. That's common for these coins.

The reverse (owl) side was the hammer die and the Athena side the anvil die. One worker would do the strike, while another held with tongs the heated flan to steady it and keep it in line with the dies, often with mixed results.

 

I was watching on YouTube Pawn Stars, Rick said that these were struck with 4 foot hammers. I can not imagine that is really the case. Were some ancient coins stuck with 4 foot hammers?

 

I'm not sure what the typical hammer length is, having never seen one. I would guess that the hammer length had to be an optimal one to assure enough force, while at the same time assuring reasonable accuracy.

Here are a pair of Roman dies. The die with the extension is what I call the hammer die, that is, it receives the force of the blow, transferring pressure to the the flan. The coin below, the final product, shows a concave surface on the reverse, SC die, and somewhat less of a concave surface for the obverse side. This is typical of hammer struck ancients, and even more modern coins, such as the Spanish "cobs" of the 16th-18th centuries.

 

I did not win the auction on the one above but I did win this one after I lost the one above. Same NGC grading slab but from a dealer on eBay who has over 26k reviews with 99.9% feed back. The grading on this one is a trade off. It has a flan flaw small but its centering and strike are better graded being 5of 5 on the Strike and 4of5 on the surface. So this one is in the bag and being shipped. So opinions on this one would be very welcome. thanks. The seller is Eternity coins out of Beverly Hills Ca.

 

That's a very nice coin. The centering is excellent for a later standardized classical owl. I don't view the NGC grades with any great importance. I look at the coin, and if it meets my criteria, I am tempted to buy it, but limited income gets in the way most of the time - just as well.

I think you picked up a very pleasant coin. Congrats!

 

Thanks. To my eye it has a small bit of wear that gives it some ambiance. I don't know what these coins go for. I know this coin is not really rare but its really sought after so the price is high. I love the design. It really reminds me of the original Clash of the Titans and Athena and her owl.

 

The wear is light and even. I tend to collect "mid grade" coins. With Athenian owls I leave the super high grade, full or nearly full crest coins to those obsessed with these things and have the monetary means to buy them. The way I look at these coins, as well as other ancient coins, is that they were produced for trade and everyday use.

As such they encounter wear, effects of burial, test cuts, countermarks (which I find very interesting) and of course counterfeiting. The contemporary fakes (not to be confused with eastern imitations) are pretty easy to detect, since they are silver plated over cooper cores. Those coins almost always have areas where the core shows through, plus their weights tend to be very low.

Imitation owls are a subspecialty of collecting. The Athenian owl was extremely popular in the East, and numerous imitations were made, especially after the fall of Athens in 404 BC, which caused a disruption in the flow of coinage to the Levant, Arabia and beyond.

Getting back to your coin, as you probably have seen in your searches, there are lots of owls out there. Immense hoards have come to the market. Still demand is strong for this type due to its history and design. Slabbed owls usually have a premium, but not always. I think if you paid between $400 and $500 for this coin, since it is slabbed, you got a pretty good buy. A raw owl, not in a slab in VF would sell for around $400 or so, depending on condition. At auction, a classical owl, raw, in VF would hammer at around $350, plus buyer's fee, which is now up to 22.5% or more.

 

Thanks, that helps. I paid more than that. 674. But I have looked from Vcoins to other dealers and what has sold on eBay. I don't see nice coins going for much less than 600 slabbed. I don't know if this coin will go up in value in the future but I did not buy it to sell. I really love watching birds and we have a pair of Bard Owl's who nest next to our house. The coin is one that you would create for Greece if they did not exist.

 

Here's a high grade standardized classical owl that came from an auction a few years ago. This coin is not slabbed. In 2019 it cost me £600, plus buyer's fee and currency conversion. Totaling everything, this is nearly a $900 coin.

Athens tetradrachm, "mint state", circa 454-404 BC. From Roma E-Sale 62, lot 156.
17.23 grams