A nice Pi-Style IV intermediate owl

Discussion in 'Ancient Coins' started by robinjojo, Feb 8, 2022.

  1. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Intermediate owls, produced in the 4th - 3rd centuries BC, were struck on usually irregular, thick flans, most of which were produced through a "folding" process. This was basically a recycling of old owls and perhaps other coins, where the original coin was heated, hammered flat, reheated and folded. Sometimes these steps were repeated.

    Because of these irregular flans it was a problematic process to produce a strike that includes the main die features. As a result, design elements are off the flan, even more so with these owls compared to the classical owls of the 5th century BC.

    So, encountering a 4th century owl with virtually all detail present, on both sides, is something of a rare event. This coin comes just about as close to accomplishing this feat. The only feature missing is the crest, but that is very often the case, even with classical owls. Otherwise this coin is the best example that I have of this difficult and crudely produced issue.

    The flan folding evidence for this coin is quite subtle, but it can be seen on the reverse, to the left of the owl, where the flat surface merges with the fold. There are also suggestions on the edge, but it seems that it was hammered smooth in most spots.

    This owl, in the pi style scheme of things, is a Pi-Style IV, 353-340 BC. The style is very nice on the obverse, with the owl on the reverse looking as if it stuck both feet into an electrical outlet.

    16.66 grams

    D-Camera Athens owl intermediate Pi-style IV c 353-40BC 16.66g choice 2-8-22.jpg


    Post your intermediate owls or anything else!

    Thanks
     
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  3. happy_collector

    happy_collector Well-Known Member

    You have a nice one with good Athena portrait, @robinjojo. :)
    I am still on a lookout for a decent example.
     
  4. JayAg47

    JayAg47 Well-Known Member

    This is my first owl tet I got for really cheap thanks to the horn silvering, after a while I treated it with sodium thiosulfate, and I was surprised to see the amount of details hidden under thick layers of horn silver!
    I could then attribute this coin to Pi style V, based on the longer tendrils. bo.jpg ao.png

    And here's the folded flan typical for these issues.
    6D4EE93D-1B85-4FA8-A6A1-74E9422A9BF1.jpeg
    Also why didn't they just melt and produce new flans rather than folding it, which sounds more laborious than just melting it?!
     
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  5. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    I love it @robinjojo ! That portrait of Athena is beautiful. The owl looks like he had a bad hair (feather?) day and I really like it :). Thanks for sharing!
     
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  6. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

    Beautiful! What is the origin of the term "pi-style"?
     
  7. JayAg47

    JayAg47 Well-Known Member

    I assume the tendrils on Athena's helmet resembling the alphabet Pi.
     
  8. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Nice coin! Yes your owl looks like a pi-style V. There are nuances that distinguish some pi-styles from one another, that can be challenging for attribution. The flan folds are very pronounced with your coin.

    I think flan folding was rather widespread, beyond Athens. As for the question of simply melting the coins and starting with fresh flans, my only guess is that the folding process skips this step. I would assume that the heating, hammering, folding could be done quickly, even if it is repeated. If time was crucial, then it would be a simple matter to heat the flan up one more time and administer the final striking of the reverse (hammer) and obverse (anvil) dies. The haphazard way these coin were struck on these irregular flan seems to indicate the emphasis of quantity over quality.

    I said that I think folded flans were used elsewhere to produce owls. Here's a coin that I recently received. It is in the style of a classical owl, but I think it was made elsewhere, not only due to some stylistic aspects, such as the crude palmette, but also due to evidence that this coin was struck on a folded flan.

    16.87 grams

    D-Camera Athens owl possible imitation folded flan 16.87g 5th cen BC 2-8-22.jpg

    D-Camera Athens owl possible imitation folded flan edge view 16.87g 5th cen BC 2-8-22.jpg

    If we assume that classical owls were struck on new flans, the folds on the edge of this classical style owl points to a non-Athenian origin. There are more folds on this coin's edge, but they are somewhat less deep and smaller.

    On the other hand, is it possible that the Athenian Mint, in the 5th century BC used folded flans, perhaps towards the end of that century?
     
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  9. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Last edited: Feb 8, 2022
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  10. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Thanks! The quality of the engraving of the obverse portrait varies greatly with these intermediate types, and they are often very crudely done. But, with patience, nice intermediate owls do show up.
     
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  11. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    [​IMG]
    Attica, Athens (353 - 294 B.C)
    AR Tetradrachm
    O: Helmeted head of Athena right
    R: AΘE Owl standing right, head facing, olive sprig and crescent to left; all within incuse square.
    16.59g
    21 mm
    Kroll -; HGC 4, 1599

    Ex. Numismatik-Naumann, Auction 52, Lot 126
     
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  12. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    This Pi4 seemed to me to be a bargain when I got it but I soon discovered that it was cheaper because the test cut had been filled with way which washed out with acetone. Another dealer bit the dust. I never got the folded flan coin I wanted with very oval flan but nose and owls on the flan.
    g41292bb3158.jpg
     
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  13. furryfrog02

    furryfrog02 Well-Known Member

    I'm sorry, but how did they fill the test cut?
    I get that people don't like test cuts because then the coin isn't "mint state"...but I love them. Shows that they were actually used by people however many years ago.
     
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  14. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    I think this is a perspective that one obtains over the years collecting ancient coins, or any coins that were used in trade and commerce. I recall, when I started collecting world and ancient coins on a serious basis, back in the early 80s, I tended to look askance at coins that were countermarked, cut or showed excessive signs of use. But, now I appreciate these features, especially countermarks, for they serve as ancient "passport stamps", in a way, showing where a given coin has traveled in the ancient world.
     
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  15. DonnaML

    DonnaML Well-Known Member

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  16. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    The sub-specialty of collecting intermediate owls by pi-style is something that only the most diehard owl collectors pursue. I think most ancient collectors are content on having one, perhaps two 4th - 3rd century owls as type examples. The coins themselves have a kind of crude charm to them, much the way Byzantine bronze coins do, but in terms of artistry, interesting reverses, etc. other areas of ancients offer greater rewards.

    The pi style changed over the course of the 4th century BC, until we get to the quadridigité style, of circa 286 - 262 B.C. Of all the pi style, this one stands out the most for me.

    The owls of this period were minted while Athens was engaged in a revolt with the anti-Macedonia coalition against Antigonus Gonatas and Macedonian domination. Athens' silver supply was boosted with a gift from Ptolemy II of Egypt. This was the Chremonidean War (267-261 BC). The revolt failed, Athens was, once again, laid to siege and starved into surrender in 262 or 261 BC.

    Here is a quadridigité owl, 286-262 BC, ex Harlan Berk. On the obverse, the palmette has grown considerably, with large tendrils, the center one extending to the rim of the helmet. The overall effect is a very naturalistic floral design. Additionally, the hair is a series of thick lines. The reverse is also quite distinctive from other pi-style owls, ,with its heavily stylized owl, a distinctive curved A, and a olive stem without an olive at the end.

    17.12 grams

    D-Camera Athens tetradrachm 393-350 BC, Berk 2020  17.12g, 12-1-20.jpg
     
  17. cmezner

    cmezner do ut des Supporter

    Very nice Pi-Style owls. The OP owl is really something!

    My thick-flanned coin is likely an earlier variety, with remnants of an incuse square and a more refined owl. Later varieties show an owl with even coarser, more pronounced head and body feathers.

    Athens, Attica, late 4th or early 3rd century after 393 BC
    20 x 25 mm, 17.184 g

    SNG Copenhagen 63; Kroll 15; SNG Delepierre 1469-1472; SNG München 91, SNG Lockett 1873, Dewing 1635; Sear 2537

    Ob.: Head of Athena r., wearing helmet decorated with three olive leaves and a curling palmette. Hair in two even loops across brow and temple. Disc shaped earring. Beaded edge to nape of helmet.
    Rev.: Athenian owl with olive spring and crescent moon to the left; Greek lettering ΑΘΕ at right

    The weight of this coin at 17.184 g corresponds to the Euboeic/Attic standard of 17.20 g for a tetradrachm. It is Pi-Style III as the lower tendrils are outward from the central tendril and originate from and are perpendicular to the curved horizontal line forming the upper tendrils; they parallel the central tendril for most of their length before flaring outward. The central tendril can be exceptionally long, extending down to Athena’s ear. Pi III may or may not have a pellet above the earring on the obverse and have one or two columns of pellets (feathers) to the right of the owl's beak on the reverse.
    upload_2022-2-9_1-33-15.png

    upload_2022-2-9_1-33-41.png
     
  18. Terence Cheesman

    Terence Cheesman Well-Known Member

    This is my PI style Owl. I believe it to be a PI V. After reading Kroll The Reminting of Athenian Silver Coinage, 353 BC I decided I needed to have one of these coins. Apparently the coins were struck on flans which were made up of older Owls which were folded over and then struck with fresh dies. I was utterly amazed that such a process was even feasible. Afterall the Owls of the mass coinage period have rather thick flans. So by studying the images in his article and then looking at some Owls held in the trays of the Staatlich Munzsammlung Munchen I was able to determine what these coins would actually look like.
    Athens Ar Tetradrachm353-290 BC Obv. Helmeted head of Athena right. Rv Owl standing right head facing. 17.17 grms 18 mm Photo by W. Hansen athens14.png As these coins tend to be rather dumpy and crude, I had to compromise. I wanted a clear PI and I wanted to see evidence of the folded flan as well.
     
  19. dougsmit

    dougsmit Member

    In this case, wax (crayons???) was melted into the cut and tooled without disturbing the metal. I regret not having taken a photo before I discovered the 'situation'. I suppose you could do the same thing more permanently with solder or fill it with gold as we see on that group of aurei making the rounds currently but wax of an appropriate color might work until someone touched it. The hobby is full of really nice, honest people and some crooks out to make a buck by any means necessary. Why so many collectors and other dealers tolerate and patronize that last class in their midst is wholly beyond me.
     
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  20. Mat

    Mat Ancient Coincoholic

    Not sure what Pi-Style mine is, I think it was 3, but not sure.
     
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  21. robinjojo

    robinjojo Well-Known Member

    Yes, I think your owl is a pi-style III, and very nicely centered for this type.

    As the article (see link below) says, sometimes it is difficult to distinguish between III and IV. As with the classical owls, styles can vary widely. Palmette sizes, proportions of the tendrils and their length can be challenge when it comes to classifying these coins.

    https://www.forumancientcoins.com/numiswiki/view.asp?key=pi-style
     
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