1936 5 Reichsmark!! Fake or Real?

So a friend sent me these pictures, and suggests he wants to sell this coin. However on looking everywhere, I found ZERO info on this thing, and I suppose that mean it might be fake? My KM book doesn't have this listed at all. Help me please identify this.

 

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common, Germany, Third Reich, KM #83, obv, but KM #86 rev..? Potsdam should not be there Hindenberg should be, did your friend get the photo's right?

 

How does the edge look like? Whats the weight?

 

He swears that coin is the same coin front and back, I have no clue what weight and edge look like. He is at work right now.

 

The coin you are showing is not possible...there obverse and reverse don't match. 5 Reichmark coins with Postdam church and no date were issued 1934-35. The 1936 (which have the save reverse with the eagle) should have Hindenberg on the reverse. If the obverse was dated 1934 or 1935 it would be correct. I think these photos are wrong.

However a 5 RM coin is 90% silver and should weigh 13.88g.

 

The only possible 1936 5 Reichmark with that Eagle would look like this (this is a 1935 but the design is the same):

 

No possibility that this is a Pattern coin, or a trial strike?

I know it shouldn't exist at all, but if he is telling the truth, (I have not seen it) then the coin would be either a counterfeit or incredibly rare?

 

No, a trial strike would be early...not at the end of the production run. More likely, he sent you googled photos of a coin that looks a lot like his and the date is off.

 

How about a mule? I'd look closer at this before just blowing it off.

 

That would be very interesting. I think he has this coin, the material under each side of coin is the same. Looks like his seat in his car.

What would the chances this is a Forgery VS Mule?

 

I think the first thing to do is get known photos of both sides of the coin. You are making a lot of assumptions about a coin that you have not seen nor have confirmed photos of...especially when there is a very logical explanation.

I have studied Third Reich coinage for a number of years and I have never heard of such a piece. They were not using that obverse die in 1936...so I don't see how a mule would even be possible.

 

I texted him and he said, he only has one Nazi coin and that is it. A mule is possible, maybe not highly made, but possible. Look up the USA state Quarter/Sacagawea Mule that was made on accident. If this is real, and a mule, I would assume it would have to have been made right after they switched dies out. Someone could have stamped it purposely or on accident. I will check this coin out first hand next time I see him. He told me he wants $30.00 for the coin, if it is silver, and measures out right, and has no sprue on it and edges are correct. I will snag it up and send it in to NGC.

 

Did he specifically say that he took those photos of his coin? Specifically ask him what the date on the coin he has in his hand is. I'm just not sold at all. This is not a rare coin and I have NEVER heard of a mule of this type in all my time studying these coins.

I'm not trying to be rude...just highly skeptical.

 

Right now these are 2 coins, shaved and glued together.

1. Get quality photos of the edge.

2. To remove all doubt, make a photo of this coin in front of a mirror, so both sides are visible on same photo at the same time.

 

That is an excellent point...could very well be.

 

According to Michael and Cuhaj,that obverse was used in 1935 and 1936 (including in Stuttgard where this coin putatively minted) for KM#86. The reverse die was used in Stuttgard through 1935 on KM#83. Thus, I don't believe that date on the coin precludes a mule. BTW, I doubt it too, just putting it out there.

 

Hmm, the mintmark below the Garrison Church in the first image looks like an "A" to me; that is Berlin. Stuttgart would be "F". Have not seen such a combination before either ...

Christian

 

I'm not 100% sure this is a Stuttgard minted coin...as the MM is kinda blurry. To me, it looks more like an A than an F (which is the most common).

What can make these coins confusing is the combination of designs. The obverse (the side with the Eagle and the date) was used on 4 distinctly different coins (meaning paired to 4 different reverses).

Those are:

KM82 - Reverse: Postdam Church with Date (1934 only)
KM83 - Reverse: Postdam Church without Date (1934-35), which this reverse is
KM84 - Reverse: 175th Anniversary of Schiller's Birth (1934-F commemorative)
KM86 - Reverse: Hindenburg (1935-36) - which this obverse would match

Of course...to make matters even worse (not that it applies here), but then KM94 came along (1936-1939) featuring the Hindenburg reverse with a new "Reich Eagle" obverse.

This coin appears to combine the KM86 obverse with the KM84 reverse.

 

Yeah, my bad. On my screen, it looked like an F. However, my logic still holds. There were KM#83 (church reverse) minted at Berlin in '35 and the OP's obverse KM#86 minted in Berlin in '36. Both are by far the highest mintages for their respective years, so there should have been plenty of dies around.

As for the obverse being paired with multiple reverses. I think that OP's obverse was used only for KM#86. That's the only obverse with the 5 in the middle of Reichsmark.

 

I knew I was missing something but I couldn't remember what it was. I was trying to go off memory. I just pulled my coins out...and you are correct. My mistake.