Hey guys. I have a 1909 Indian $5 gold piece that I'm trying to identify. It is fairly worn, but it is obvious a mintmark exists. I put a slice of my coin that reveals the mintmark in this picture, with a small example of an "o" and "D" mintmark from the PCGS website up in the left corner. I honestly can't tell from the pic what mine is (I'm an amature), and the coin was bought as a 1909 Indian, because the mintmark is very very vague(the seller didnt originally know one existed). Opinions?? thanks, John
WOW!!! This was an eye-opener for me. Were half-eagles really struck at the New Orleans Mint in 1909? Or is the "O" something else (not counting the "spurious" varieties?) Breen certainly verifies their existence, but doesn't give any history. Anyone got a reference about the striking of these coins?
Yeah, they were. But they only struck the 1909 indian halves. Google the New Orleans mint and you'll find an article about the history of it. I just read it yesterday. I think(??) 1909 was the last year it was in operation, which is why they only made the 1909 half eagles there. Edit: Here's the article I found yesterday just out of curiousity: http://www.blanchardonline.com/AmericanRarities/archive-08/newor.html
Are there other diagnostics used to verify a bona fide 1909-O ? Certain die characteristics, perhaps ? Maybe that will solve the riddle. I recommend consulting some specialist literature. I have a Garrett and Guth at home. PM me to remind me to check it when I get off work. My guess is it's a 1909-D, but I can't tell from the photo. Don't get your hopes up... but don't give up hope, either. I'm sure you're aware at lot of $$$ are at stake here; the 1909-D is very common, while the 1909-O is a really tough key.
The genuine 1909-O has the mint mark often doubled, to the left. That's the only real diagnostic I can find, but it doesn't apply to all examples.
I'd say it's a filled mint mark version. Probably a 1909-O die, with the mint mark filled in for Philadelphia to use (has occurred before) and since the New Orleans Mint didn't mint as many as Philadelphia did, it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't ship some of their dies to Philly for them to use. Ribbit
The jury is still out on this one. Looking at the PCGS pictures, it appears the "O" mintmark is slightly closer to the arrows than a "D" mint mark. The lower left of the "D" almost touches the rim; the "O" is well away. I think the way to get definitive on this one is to carefully measure the exact position* of the mintmark on known "O" and "D" specimens and compare to the piece in question. Perhaps that will solve the issue. The "D" mark appears to be larger in diameter. Measure the mint marks themselves. Dude.... I'm almost leaning towards an "O" at this point. * N, S, E, and W
Here's what's gonna complicate the "position" issue... There were only 34,200 "O"s made - with that low a mintage, they probably all came from one pair of dies. Thus, all "O" coins should have the MM in exactly the same spot. Not so with the "D"s - with a mintage of ~3.4 million, they surely needed several dies. It's possible the various dies moved the MM around a bit. Do some research on this. Also research whether all "D"s were made with the same size mint mark.
Logical to think that, however - as I said a bit ago - "The genuine 1909-O has the mint mark often doubled, to the left. That's the only real diagnostic I can find, but it doesn't apply to all examples."
There are two varieties for the O, as Doug points out. The weak, doubled-to-the-left and the sharper variety two. The D was usually well struck. One of the diagnostics is color. Assuming the coin wasn't cleaned the New Orleans half eagle had an unattractive green-gold appearance. It is also frosty and not so lustrous on circulated pieces. Don't know if that helps. The O is not all that rare in low grade. But it is highly collectible as it is the only half eagle in the series from New Orleans and their last gold coin. I don't know of any D over D variety for 1909. But I'm no specialist with this series. Odds are high it is a D simply because of the numbers. But it is worth having graded and identified. Lance.
