Howdy fellow coin peeps, :thumb: I thought I'd share this counterfeit 1904-S Double Eagle with the forum so it can be discussed. However, when discussing it, remember that when dealing with unscrupulous sellers on Ebay, they won't provide such clear and enlarged photos of the fake coin they are selling, which is why it's always stressed by everyone here to not buy something like this unless the seller provides really good photos of it and the seller has a good feedback rate and/or you know them well. Ribbit Ps: I added two more pics that were shot at an angle and not quite in focus, to show you how you can make a fake gold coin look real and the technique used by many sellers selling coins like this one.
Toad thanks for the info , it looks like that one was made with elctric sparks , could you tell us how the rimm looks (reeding on edge of cone) ,and its weight . Thanks again for the heads up . Also do you know the method of manufacture , mines just a guess ? rzage Also what is it made of ?
Here are two more photos that are in focus but still shot from an angle. Note how it looks totally different than the overhead shots and it also looks more real. Angle shots are a technique that can be used to hide problems with a coin so be cautious of coins with pics taken at an angle and not from directly overhead. Ribbit
Weight - 22.5 grams Rim - see pics below (up'd them as you were asking the question - we think alike) Manufacture - not sure but the metal is non-magnetic (probably brass). Ribbit Ps: I will take high quality photos tomorrow in the daylight to show all the problems the coin has. With a flash, the glare masks many of the problem spots.
What did I say in the OP? Sellers on Ebay don't take great pics of bad coins. Duh! My pics are much better than theirs, so maybe you can figure out what I meant by warning others not to buy coins like this with crappy photos? Ribbit Ps: Sorry for being so "short' but I am typing on the fly. Been busy today at work and my workday still isn't over.
I guess the point I was trying to make is that the angled pics do not make it look more real. The most obvious clue that the coin is fake is the surface of the coin and in both sets of pics that is plainly obvious. Yes, angled pics can be used to hide some problems like marks, hairlines or cleaning. But angled pics are necessary if you wish to show luster or color. So it is a mistake to make a blanket statement that angled pics indicate somebody is trying to hide something.
I do not believe that was a blanket statement! CAN BE does not equal IS BE CAUTIOUS OF does not equal DON'T BUY My wording was very cautious and left room for the legitimate coins. It could even be said that you should be cautious of anything you buy on Ebay, regardless of the pic. Ribbit Ps: I'm trying to be more cautious with what I say here and how I say it, so I don't have problems like this but that doesn't mean I won't word something wrong. :thumb:
Oh yea! But I didn't pay for a authentic one. :whistle: I thought this would be a good one to use to learn what to look for in other fakes being sold as authentic. It's one thing to look at pics but to have it in hand, there are even more things that the pics don't show but I will eventually get them to show up in a pic and post it. Ribbit
I think it was Bowers that said the best way to learn to detect fake coins is the study REAL coins. Speedy
At 1 grand each (cheap ones) I can't afford to study the real ones and pics only do so much. I could afford this, so I'll work from the opposite end. Ribbit Ps: Simple Algebra teaches you there's more than one way to skin a cat, or lick a toad. :mouth:
Toad just start going to moreshows & coin shops . The people are usually nice , the other day a dealer showed me a high relief St. Gaudens even though he knew I couldn't aford it. A beautiful coin that was whizzed . So I learned a little about St.Gaudens & whizzed coins . rzage
I don't get out of my gutter too often. I'm on call 24/7/52 and with the gas prices how they are now, I hate getting somewhere and having to turn right around and go to work, which seems to happen everytime I go somewhere. I've tried for the past two months to make it to the local coin club meeting and both nights, I ended up at work and missed the meeting. I'll make it some day (night) and if I actually make it and get called back to work, they'll just have to wait. It'll teach them not to call me earlier to let me know they'll be coming in. I did that to someone that woke me up at 2am and never called me earlier to warn me they were coming in that late. He wasn't happy about it but he will call earlier next time to warn me he's coming in late. Ribbit
I never said that you had to BUY them to study them. You can often get great pic's to study on Heritage if you don't have a coin shop near by. When you spend money on stuff like this you won't have money for the real deal. If you want a nice $20 gold piece that you don't have to worry about being fake then save your money, do your re-search, study the market, and you will end up with a NICE coin at a NICE price. If you don't mind them being slabbed then you could also go that way. Speedy
Like I said, pics only go so far, whereas in hand there is so much more to see. It's like on the pictures of the OP coin, there are many die clash looking marks you can't see in the pic, but in hand, WOW! I will post high resolution pics later to show all the deformaties and if peeps know about these deformaties, they may be able to spot them even in a bad pic of one of these but if they don't know about them, they are easy to miss. Ever see a real one with 20 or 30 tiny die clashes on the reverse? Ribbit
I will agree with Toad on this point. Pictures are very limited on what they can teach you. You can't look at different angles, you have no control of the lighting and often the area you want to observe. Color could be important and you don't know if it has been accurately reproduced. And you are looking at a two dimensional image of a three dimensional object. It just isn't the same And while Heritage may have lots of examples you can view, their reputation for the quality of their photography is not high. No, there is no substitute for in hand observations. (If there were no one would have to attend auctions and look at the lots in person. They could just use their catalogs or on-line images of the lots.)
