1871 Trade Dollar.....Counterfeit?

I have an 1871-S Trade dollar. Problem is they wern't minted until 1873. It appears genuine in every regard and grades probably EF. Any thoughts?

 

Log in or Sign up to hide this ad.

Got a scan?

 

You have answered your own question. No trade dollars were made prior to 1873. The only possibility would be a pattern piece. If the dimensions add up, along with the weight, then I would suggest that you have it examined by PCGS or NGC

 

U.S. trade dollars circulated widely in Asia, alongside British and Japanese trade dollars, Austrian thalers, Spanish 8 reales, and several other coins. As a result, all were heavily counterfeited (counterfeit as in made to pass off as legitimate currency) in the late 19th Century. Currently China produces many forgeries (forgeries as in made to pass off as genuine collecible coins) of those same coins. Counterfeits generally approximate the specifications and designs of genuine coins, because they were intended for use by people who were familiar with the real ones. Forgeries frequently take great liberties, such as excessive width, light or heavy weight, unreal calligraphy or designs, and phony dates. Similar to your example, a Meiji 1 (1868) Japanese silver ¥1 frequently shows up on eBay, even though the first such coins were dated Meiji 3 (1870)! Also, it's not uncommon for forgeries to look as if they are VF/XF, presumably to make them appear more realistic. Artificial wear can also conceal the graininess on the surfaces of a cast coin.

That said, considering the value a genuine pattern would have, it may well be worth gambling the slabbing fee to see if you've struck oil or water.
If you do, stick with the top tier grading outfits, and stay miles and miles and miles away from the flaky ones.

 

I found a Trade Dollar in Thailand
Year 1875 on one side and U S A
420 grains 900 fine S
Trade Dollar on other side can anyone tell me somthing of that e.g. value

 

If found in Thailand, the odds of it being genuine are pretty slim. If it is real, the value would be dependent on the condition of the coin. The range in value begins with the silver content and can run through several hundred dollars. A pic of the coin would help narrow it down for you.

 

Indeed. Maybe I'm limiting myself, but I would absolutely NOT buy any raw Trade Dollars or Seated Liberty Dollars. There are just WAY too many Asian fakes out there.

Perhaps if I could personally inspect the coin and weigh it, I might reconsider. But for most distance purchases, unless I were dealing with an extremely reputable and trustworthy dealer who honors their return policy, I'd not go anywhere *near* these raw dollar coins.

 

Trade Dollar 1875

Scan of my Dollar
I found it by the Kwai bridge
And I payed somthing like 5 dollar and that included a coin I from I think Mexico 1734 an som other China an Thai coins, maby you woul like too se that too ?

 

Unquestionably fake. The reverse doesn't even look *close* to what an authentic Trade Dollar reverse looks like. Most Trade Dollar fakes I've seen are more deceptive than this one.

 

Thank´s well no harme done

 

Well sir,

Based on the photos, I believe that your coin is a copy.

First, your coin only has 12 stars. Should be thirteen.
Second, the stalks behind Lady Liberty are coming out at the wrong angle from the elbow.
Third, the leaves in Lady Liberty's hand are also in the wrong placement.
Fourth the placement of the base of the coin is off a bit.

Still an interesting piece, and at the price paid, it isn't a total loss

 

Unfortunately, I agree with Ziggy. I have yet to see a genuine raw Trade Dollar from Asia. If you only paid $5 for it, you can probably resell it and make a profit selling it as a replica/counterfeit on eBay.

 

Thank You all, it seems like you know a lot, do You mind take a look on my Mexican on the other thread ? (Help idendtyfi....

 

You may have to wait for GDJMSP to help you with the Mexican coin. Outside of my knowledge base.

 

That's a very important first step in the attribution of a coin as genuine/fake. The ability to produce accurately weighted planchets was independently developed in both Europe and Asia many, many centuries ago. Minters using balance scales then "adjusted" overweight planchets by filing off tiny amount of the metal before striking the coin. (When those marks are visible on the coin they don't generally affect grade or value because they are original.) Underweight planchets were simply thrown back in the melting pot.

Result? If a coin is too heavy, or comes up light by more than a tiny amount attributable to wear, the weight alone condemns it as a counterfeit/replica/forgery.

But, and a very important point - correct weight standing alone is an absolutely, positively essential, but insufficient basis for attribution as genuine.

 

Well...yeah. But I think I could pretty well spot a clearly genuine coin if it passed the weight test. Most of the fakes appear a bit grainy and the transfer die fakes generally have the same dull, washed-out look with loss of detail and a lack of "bell-like" tonal quality when tapped. It's possible I might identify a real coin as a fake, but if that's what I need to do to feel safer with the transaction, that's what I'd do.

I also would need to make sure I trusted the seller to guarantee authenticity and follow up on it. I would never, never, *never* buy a valuable raw coin without that assurance, under any circumstances, *period*. That's even more crucial for novice collectors who haven't studied about counterfeits, their manufacture and the usual diagnostics.

 

I have found a trade dollar of 1871.. Can anyone tell me is there coin like trade dollar which was minted in 1871. Please reply.

 

Fake. There were no trade dollars until 1873.

 

It's a zombie dollar. Like this thread.